I need an urgent help for this poem :

[www.poetseers.org] />
u can find it on this address,i need the analysis of this poem for example:metaphors,smilis,under/overstatement,irony..etc..also the theme..
that's a simple and a perfect poem about death,u know she suffered tuberculosis she was solitary and she mainly mentions about the hardships and death.
Please please could u help me on this analysis?

sleep symbolises the death,that's ok.
some paradoxical words:"no promised heaven" and "no threatened hell" ; "quenchless fire" and "quenchless will" this fire and will have made me think,but my thought about is that fire is a divine symbol and will is an earthly symbol like bodily appetite.also "rest and suffer" at the end of the poem.
It mentions "three gods within this little frame.."I couldn't get the point!What is this three gods or who??

Well, the Bronte sisters have been a-molderin' for some time now, so I am unlikely to violate their copyright by posting it here. Looks also as if there is more to it than the linked site offers (apparently two voices below?):


The Philosopher

Enough of thought, philosopher!
Too long hast thou been dreaming
Unlightened, in this chamber drear,
While summer's sun is beaming!
Space-sweeping soul, what sad refrain
Concludes thy musings once again?

"Oh, for the time when I shall sleep
Without identity.
And never care how rain may steep,
Or snow may cover me!
No promised heaven, these wild desires
Could all, or half fulfil;
No threatened hell, with quenchless fires,
Subdue this quenchless will!"

"So said I, and still say the same;
Still, to my death, will say--
Three gods, within this little frame,
Are warring night; and day;
Heaven could not hold them all, and yet
They all are held in me;
And must be mine till I forget
My present entity!
Oh, for the time, when in my breast
Their struggles will be o'er!
Oh, for the day, when I shall rest,
And never suffer more!"

"I saw a spirit, standing, man,
Where thou dost stand--an hour ago,
And round his feet three rivers ran,
Of equal depth, and equal flow--
A golden stream--and one like blood;
And one like sapphire seemed to be;
But, where they joined their triple flood
It tumbled in an inky sea
The spirit sent his dazzling gaze
Down through that ocean's gloomy night;
Then, kindling all, with sudden blaze,
The glad deep sparkled wide and bright--
White as the sun, far, far more fair
Than its divided sources were!"

"And even for that spirit, seer,
I've watched and sought my life-time long;
Sought him in heaven, hell, earth, and air,
An endless search, and always wrong.
Had I but seen his glorious eye
ONCE light the clouds that wilder me;
I ne'er had raised this coward cry
To cease to think, and cease to be;

I ne'er had called oblivion blest,
Nor stretching eager hands to death,
Implored to change for senseless rest
This sentient soul, this living breath--
Oh, let me die--that power and will
Their cruel strife may close;
And conquered good, and conquering ill
Be lost in one repose!"


Does it help any to see the whole thing, Persephone?

And who the heck is Ellis Bell, anyway?

Didn't Ellis Bell invent the Perse-phone?

When I shall sleep
~

Oh, for the time when I shall sleep
Without identity,
And never care how rain may steep,
Or snow may cover me!
No promised heaven these wild desires
Could all, or half, fulful;
No threatened hell, with quenchless fires,
Subdue this quenchless will!

So said I, and still say the same;
Still, to my death, will say—
Three gods within this little frame
Are warring night and day:
Heaven could not hold them all, and yet
They all are held in me;
And must be mine till I forget
My present entity!

Oh, for the time when in my breast
Their struggles will be o'er!
Oh, for the day when I shall rest,
And never suffer more!


That's poem,ok,forget about the link above.
Persephone is the Queen of the Underworld, wife of Hades,in Greek Mythology.I think that's enough for u to get WHO she was!Not an invention,a creature!!!

Emily Bronte died of tuberculosis,it's said that she suffered much; though she was the strongest member in her family.She died young at the age of thirty.She was solitary,her poems' main themes are hardships of love,life etc..and death.
Additional knowledge for those who isn't acquinted with her.

There is a wealth of info. on all Bronte sisters here: [www.victorianweb.org] />

Les

Well, we seem to have acquired a troll and also to have offended Persephone somehow. Oh, well, such is life on the internet.

Anyway, thinking about the three gods and the three rivers, one is usually reminded of the Holy Trinity in Christianity/Catholicism. Father, son and holy ghost, that is. Could such creatures not have been held heaven? Sure, that fits.

One also thinks of the three Bronte sisters, Charlotte, Emily and Anne. They don't seem to have originally been held in heaven, though, so a less likely interpretation.

Thanx Hugh!I thought that the three gods would be the 3 sisters,but holy trinity sounds good,too,they fit in heaven,thats right.

"They all are held in me;
And must be mine till I forget
My present entity!" i think here,the sisters fit more,when she dies,they will die with her too.

In the last stanza,it shows that they give pain to her that when she dies,they will be over,so she will rest,suffer no more:

"Oh, for the time when in my breast
Their struggles will be o'er!
Oh, for the day when I shall rest,
And never suffer more!"

"in my breast" she died of tuberculosis,maybe she mentions about the pain of her breast......that's the poetry!!!Hard to guess what is intended...
Thank u very much..

Emily didn't have certain belief in God.We can say that either she is Pagan,or she is not sure if she believes in God or not.But it'S clear that she lacks faith,she needs a shoulder to lean or weep on...Maybe....That's my idea based upon some searches.

Being the daughter of a preacher, I doubt seriously that she was pagan, though she might not have been sure of her faith, she certainly believed in God. See this for example: [womenshistory.about.com] />
Les

Yes,i've read the poem,That's right that she believes in God.
And she thinks that "sleep" will give her relief,rest..She believes in the other world after death.Thank u very much.

the Three gods seem to me be facets of herself:

wild desires
quenchless will!
and the latter, I presume, her "good part".

These three cannot acces heaven, if she's too willful she will go to hell, no? So, these three facets are in her, and thus as a whole, she cannot enter heaven. And the three facets are continuously battling with each other.

The holy trinity would have no problem entering heaven. She doesn't mention her sisters at all, so I would certainly leave them out of it. But of course, she is drawing inspiration from the holy trinity and one entity.

ty desi,but emily bronte got lots help from her sisters and also her brother till he died one day.The 3 sisters especially Charlotte and emily lived in an imaginary world called Gondal.She collected many of her poems in this collection.So 3 sisters sounds good,but ur comment sounds good,too.My presentation on this poem is on this tuesday.I am very anxious about it but i am planning to say all these good ideas.Thank u very much.Actually,we aren't Emily Bronte so can't certainly guess real meaning of the every word that she symbolised,can we?I think whatever we say about the poem on the frame of logic will be accepted i think.I hope so...

does facet mean variety of the things in her mind or the other face of the medal?sorry for this question but i couldn't find its exact meening in my dictionary.

Desi u're great ur comment is very logical,the heaven can't hold them so,it's about her inner thoughts,deep thoughts.

"So said I, and still say the same;
Still, to my death, will say—
Three gods within this little frame
Are warring night and day:
Heaven could not hold them all, and yet
They all are held in me;
And must be mine till I forget
My present entity!"

It's very clear in these lines.

wild desires
quenchless will!
quenchless fire these are her fears but she cant take herself thinking like that

Persephone, bookmark the following page:

[www.onelook.com] />

Les

"but emily bronte got lots help from her sisters and also her brother till he died one day"

I know, but what has that to do with this poem? In my opinion, you should first focus on the text itself. What does the text tell you, even if you don't know anything about the writer?

Well, you cannot conclude from the text that she has any sisters at all, so that is why I don't think she refers to them.
On the other hand, anyone with a bit of knowledge about christianity can understand that a trinity can refer to the trinity of the father, the son and the holy ghost. You don't need to know anything about Emily to understand this, that is why this would be "a valid" reference, in my opinion.

You might one day wade through this to get a bit of an idea on literary theory:
[en.wikipedia.org] />
Good luck.

I am sorry for this tragic and also funny situation.I live in Turkiye,in here if u memorize what u've learnt,you can certainly pass ur exams.We aren't capable of commenting on anything.Our only ability is to memorise everything.We don't know how to think how to comment on a subject.I try hard,read books,but when it comes to analysing a poem;i fail!I trust myself,i know everything what i need for literature,but i can't apply any of my knowledge to any texts!
I am sorry,i am in a very desperate situation,one day left to my prensentation,i hope god will be with me.
Thank u for ur all helps.

You're not doing too bad. It takes time and practise to learn how to analyse a poem. Stick around here for a while and keep on trying, and you'll hopefully will not only learn how to analyse, but also to appreciate poetry!

thank you for ur all helps,i have shown my study to one of the professors,and he said that "Perfect!U have a critical approach to the poem,and ur ideas are great,there is no need of worrying about it.Congratulations!" he said.He is a man who never get satisfied with our thoughts and approaches to the texts.He is Romanian and he has been educated in England.So his ideas are the same for mines about Turkish education system.He is a hard man.But he said me "Perfect!"
Thank you to all especially to DESI;both ur ideas and words have given me great courage and scope..I hope one day,i will help someone as u have helped me.

Perhaps the Romanian teacher will show you that your begins with "yo".

Les

Wouldn't a Romanian teacher be more likely to say Ro instead of Yo ?

and can he explain why they named the Brontesaurus after them when there's a vast difference between poetry and paleontology?

Et tu, Brontë!

Les

Personally, I thought the three rivers were the sisters, but just another wild stab, I confess.

good work persephone!

Well Hugh, your forte is metre anyway. No one can ever beat you there, I think! For me it is still a kind of mathematics. It doesn't come natural at all.

and what about Jane Eerie, where she meets the ghost of Rochester from The Jack Benny Show ?

i am a student at a university,my department is English Language and Literature.
When i graduate,i will be a philologist!See the irony?How can u call me "philologist"?or would u call me "philologist"???This is the point which i can't stand about the education system here,and so does the (Romanian)Professor.
The teachers comes to the class and dictate the scheduled tasks,lessons,subjects,whatever,then when exams come,we memorise them all,and in the end,if somebody asks about a person from litrary or asks about anything we've learnt,now,it is the time for our failing,sacking!Because we've already forgotten them all!!!Just the teachers think that they do their duty which is to teach us the terms,definitions or the already teacher-prepared-and-commented issues/subjects!That's the system which narrows our scope and ability to think...
I don't know why i have written this,but i am feeling very relaxed and relief!!!
After i gratuate,i know i won't be half u all really!
And i wonder how old are u and what kind of student:a high school?or university?
And how could u know all these things???That's great.I am 22,and next year but not this leading term,i will gratuate from university to be one that empty teachers!!!What a pity!I am sorry for these thoughts about our system but it is the reality...

""I know, but what has that to do with this poem? In my opinion, you should first focus on the text itself. What does the text tell you, even if you don't know anything about the writer?"" i admire these sentences!Great point of view which is indeed easy to think for u like that,but really hard for me.When somebody shows as Desi has done,then i will get the point!! we have become ready-made thinkers.
Thanks to that i 've become a member of this site,because i have learnt many things here more than my school has thaught me..Thank u again.

well, you'll already half there, not taking the system for granted.

And don't worry, most of us are not students anymore. I'm 30, Dutch, and studied English and Classical languages in university. I dropped out, because I just couldn't take anything for granted, which made my life hell!

I'm 47 from Long Island New York, and act 12

act 12

Now that's a long play!


Les

hi persephone..maybe ý can help u ýf u still need.last year ý remember ýn our poetry class we analysýzed this poem.I can send that analysis to u ýf u want..what do u think..kiss u

there's a lot of intermissions and toidy breaks

Pleased to meet you (on the internet)
By the way,guess what,teacher has postponed my analysis to next tuesdayThis symbolyses 2 facets
1-the torment of this poem will continue till next tues.
2-it is a chance for me to advance my ideas about this torturing poem so again a chance to see what i hide inside of both my brain and heart, and see my potential.
I prefer the latter.Literal aspect of one day in may life...
Don't worry Desi,life isn't static u know,and in life,some have luck,some roll on the floor from misery or being unlucky.And for some people life goes statically,but one day when the time wants,life shows its sharpened teeth without no mercy.I think u have that kinf of chance ,but dont forget this that u attended a school once upon a time but couldn't manage accomplish it;but now,u have enough knowledge to HELP PEOPLE!You have knowledge on literary,you are Dutch but ur scope is broad.None of us can think like a native English.I appreciate the education system in Europe.It is rational,intellectual.U see me,I try very hard to improve myself.Observe what i have written to other's topics in order to help themYou will see my limited knowledge.I can't make a sufficient comment on any of the topics because our knowledge is facile(shallow).All i need is to help the others as u do.
Don't think ur life is hell;are u starving?or are u homeless?Look at the poor people,they have nothing in this world even a hope!at least,We have a hope in life.Maybe u can write a book,whay not!I am sure you can..Think about the fame u will earn..) sounds good...

i have no idea about act 12

"Don't worry Desi"

I don't. Note the past tense of "made". I'm perfectly happy and content with life now.

"Maybe u can write a book,whay not!I am sure you can..Think about the fame u will earn..)"

uh, no thanks. Fame is not something I aspire. And writing is a lot of work, for which I'm way too lazy.

I wish to give you one more general advise. When writing, the structure and the appearance is as important as the message. Because if you don't pay attention to it, you implicitly say the message is not worth making an effort for, so why should another make the effort to read it?

So, even when posting on a forum, take the time to put in punctuation, line breaks and be careful not to overdo using u instead of you. You can be sure that we'll all appreciate it!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2006 04:09AM by Desi.

Thanx Desi;you are perfectly analyse my wrong sidesReally,you have taught me how to think and you have thought me how to write.That's correct that i can't clearly explain myself in English.Because I think the way i think in Turkish.Is it clear?I use some idioms which derive from Turkish but by me translated into English.Two very different languages,the language families of them are very very different.The commen thing among them is the letters:A,B,C...the Latin alphabet.
I read poems,books in English never read the Turkish translations of the English works..I hope one day,I am going to start thinking as an English..

Desi has us all at a disadvantage that way, since she speaks/reads/writes several languages, including English, Dutch, French and Greek, I believe. A true multi-national!

I barely speak English, so I am in awe

blush
uh, honestly, my Greek isn't that good. I can understand a bit, but am not up to a real conversation in it. I do speak German, but cannot make any sense of the der, dem, den, die, das, etc., so I kind of guess. German people are very nice though, and pretend not to notice.

And there are so many things I'm so bad at. I can't sing, for example. I had to actually get a baby to have someone to listen to me. He can't walk away yet. But it's soon time for another one, as he starts to crawl. ;-)

u are very great and sincere people!Oops!i've used "u" again!Sorry;internet language!u know weve been murdering or spoiling(whatever they call it) the use of language since the beginning of chat on the internet.I hate this situation but at the same time,i do spoil it!
Again i am saying that the people on this site are really perfect;you really help people who are in need of sth.i am a member of another literary site but the people there,even the moderators don't help anybody i have understood.They only help the known people among that site;no place for a newbie!!!
I congratulate all of you for this kind,sincere and helpful treatments.I love you all.Best wishes for continuation of your success.

By the way Desi,i didn't mean that you are unhappy or in despair now;i realised that i have given that impression indeed.If you were that unhappy or desperate,you wouldn't be here to help somebody or you wouldn't do this kind of thing.i really appreciate you and your doings;and all of yours.But Desi is different for me)

I didn't read all the above posts due to having to make au gratin potatoes, but the three gods seem to be "me, myself and I," and this reader finds the poem to be quite naive and retarded. The speaker seems like one of those people who fantasize about their own death, or even suicide---"oh---I will be so missed."

I'm sorry, but can we cut through the crap? Once someone is dead and mourned, the living move on because Man, by nature, is narcissitic as is this speaker. I agree that death, perhaps holds the hope of no more suffering.

Lisa


When I shall sleep
~

Oh, for the time when I shall sleep
Without identity,
And never care how rain may steep,
Or snow may cover me!
No promised heaven these wild desires
Could all, or half, fulful;
No threatened hell, with quenchless fires,
Subdue this quenchless will!

So said I, and still say the same;
Still, to my death, will say—
Three gods within this little frame
Are warring night and day:
Heaven could not hold them all, and yet
They all are held in me;
And must be mine till I forget
My present entity!

Oh, for the time when in my breast
Their struggles will be o'er!
Oh, for the day when I shall rest,
And never suffer more!

Again and again thank you for your helps.I've made my presentation today.

My teacher sat and just listened to me;didn't interfere anything.In the end she said :
"Thank you;perfect presentation and i know you have used your own ideas to analyse it of course i know you got help from the internet but you try hard to achieve something.I want you to take part in a conference next semestr which is going to be about American Literature,the chosen students will find an American poem and analyse them by their own words,ideas."
The other students who made their presentations on different poems got help from the internet.I can understand the structure of their sentences;the words they used,because they can't explain the meaning of the words.

I've found a formulation in the poem last night;my inspiration fairy visited me and took me to a new atmosphere..Then I reached this:

"Me,myself and I" observe itThese are THREE GODS)

ME:IDENTITY(her rights and wrongs in life and in her choices)

"Oh, for the time when I shall sleep
Without IDENTITY,
And never care how rain may steep,
Or snow may cover me!
No promised heaven these wild desires
Could all, or half, fulful;
No threatened hell, with quenchless fires,
Subdue this quenchless will!"

MYSELF:ENTITY(Her inner world-thoughts)

"So said I, and still say the same;
Still, to my death, will say—
Three gods within this little frame
Are warring night and day:
Heaven could not hold them all, and yet
They all are held in me;
And must be mine till I forget
My present ENTITY!"

IUFFER(breast)(Her bodily existance)

"Oh, for the time when in my BREAST
Their struggles will be o'er!
Oh, for the day when I shall rest,
And never SUFFER more!"

How?My teachers really liked THREE GODS which i have formulated from the whole poem;when you think about the whole poem,the idea will seem logical to you..I think..

Thank you again;Special thx to Desi for bringing myself to me;giving lots of courage to me.

Id, Ego, and SuperEgo

[en.wikipedia.org]

Johnny--- agreed!!

Lisa

This is the best:

"I didn't read all the above posts due to having to make au gratin potatoes"

Well Johnny---

it "was" after all Christmas day and I was due several guests expecting my special potato recipe, so I was killing a bit of time and exercising my somewhat shriveled brain, here with you guys . . .

the potatoes turned out great btw.

I wish I could love that poem even a bit but it goes so against my grain.
I realize that was a different era with different "ways," but still.

Ah well, the Bronte sisters were a tad repressed and I do feel for them.

Happy New Year you Johnny boy,

Lisa