Today I was invigilating over students doing an external examination. These are my thoughts. Although some might disagree, I do disaprove of exams. I'd love to hear comments!!


Odds: 3 to 11

The circle,
The whole circle, and
Nothing but the circle must
Fully be filled black. Smudged, the letter is,
P, in pink, to prove their presence at the right
Time and place.
As if to milk their
Brains, extract knowledge, whether
Or not they’re ready; whether or not
Inspired. Induced regurgitation whether
They wither
Or not. Creation
Is the last thing occurring
Here, now. Forced weather rains locks enough
To seal Earth. What blasphemy are we part of?

Scars of memory aren’t easily undone,
When hurricanes blow hard in vacuum of change!

k.q.,
As for the poem i don't like the first 3 lines (just my opinion). the rest of the poem, i like the repetition of the p's and w's.

content:

i think finals are good. people get caught up thinking their grades dictate their self-worth. final exam just do what their meant to do; see how much the student retained during the year.

i'm beginning my second semmester in college and i hate taking finals, but i love passing them.

thanks for the read

Keep it simple!

KQ, you are a humorous gal!

I laughed my little tushie off reading the first bit:

The circle,
The whole circle, and
Nothing but the circle must
Fully be filled black. (and with only a pencil, of course!)

I can't even tell you how many times I heard those words...as for the rest of the piece, I believe in testing knowledge, what may be retained by two individuals may be vastly different then what I might retain...'tis interesting.

Creation
Is the last thing occurring (FAB!)



Post Edited (05-26-04 11:30)

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

Quite good........don't go outside the circle ! otherwise you're bad......or get hollered at for "acting smart"

RE your signature....drawing from an old Star Trek episode....YES I do discriminate against you since my left hand is White and my right hand is Black !

K.Q.,

"I do disaprove of exams."

Does this include finals, pop quizzes, tests? How do you determine where each student is and who may or may not require extra help? Would you also advocate a Pass/Fail grade system? What is the average rainfall in Nepal?
Enjoyed the poem.

john

Do you approve of big quizzies but not small testies?

The average yearly rainfall in Nepal is approx 30"

The title and the second to last sentence has baffeled me. care to explain?

Keep it simple!

Me, I appreciate your honesty , thanks. As for "people get caught up thinking their grades dictate their self-worth" Children do and i think it is not healthy to do so as we are not machines, always ready to perform according to set expectations by other: standards!
The title is supposed to refer to how odd the situation is and also the nuber of syllables in each line 3,5,7,9,11! Is it clear to you now?

Gwyn, thanks for taking time to read. Your words always touch me and I like your open mindedness to views of others.

Johnny, thanks . Your first comment hit a nail! As for the second, I didn't quite get it?! Care to explain? Sorry for my ignorance!!!

John, you ask:"How do you determine where each student is and who may or may not require extra help?" Well I always believe that people are similar in that they are different. They have different pace at least. Who determines what the average or standards are? I think there should be a genuine authentic way of seeing how much people know, that is useful and meaningful, not bound by limitations!"Would you also advocate a Pass/Fail grade system?" Definitely not! Everybody is good at something!

Me, The "hurricane " in the last line is probably what kids are confronted with without specifying: the system, examiners, grades,teachers,parents; and despite all the flux that takes place in the whole process, not much change occurs unlike real life and true learning!

As for myself, I love learning and adore sitting for exams myself. I actually still feel a tingle when I have to sit for one or see others do so. But that seems to be the exception. I see the suffering of kids and the tension they are in and just simply wonder why we subject them to such awful circumstances while all we have to do is think of alternatives!



Post Edited (05-27-04 06:28)

When I was in the uncomfortable position of laying on a sanitary table in the State of Texas with a needle in my arm, without thinking about it, I was sort of happy that the white clad lady with the razor like knife in her left hand had passed some sort of quiz on the location of the liver, and to what the word "malignancy" refered.
Hey, some kids is dumb, and gonna flunk tests.. Betcha in a few years, those nerds, (who are destined to rule the earth) will be paying the dumbest of their classmates a horrible amount of money for cleaning their pipes, and fixing their air conditioners on their Lexus'.
Test,, for the love of Mike, test.

Terry

K.Q. , I was answering JH Summer's inquiry regarding Nepal's rainfall.

That's all...no deeper meanings

K. Q. having been a teacher for 30 years, and a student all my life, I have known tests from both sides. As you are seeing now, tests are not always kid friendly.

I think though that they are a necessary evil. They do measure growth and proficiency and, believe it or not, they can impove the creative process.

During the l980's and l990's I was hired by our school district to read essays written as a district proficiency for graduation. Students at the school had to pass exams in Reading, Math, Language, and Writing. My job was to read the
essays and grade them.

The district was very concerned about students not being able to pass college level English courses once they entered the state universities because of their poor writing skills. The school district committed time and money to hire good teachers and train them in the teaching of writing.

What I witnessed in my position as reader of those essays was that the entire student population in grades 7-12 improved over a ten year period. At the end of that period the students' essays as a group were 1. More coherent 2. Better organized 3. More relevant to the topics assigned.

This improvement was brought about by district wide testing. Without some sort of evaluation prodedure, we cannot tell if growth has occured, or
whether we need to improve on instruction in some area of the curriculum.

Les



Post Edited (05-27-04 23:13)

Les,

I applaud the district's concern for the students not being able to perform once the've left the district.

Too often, the goal is ONLY if the test can be passed, and that I object to strenuously.

Johnny , Thanks for the comment and the support. I really appreciate it and am extremely glad to know that there are people who think like you! I'm really honored to know you through this site.
The comment I didn't understand was this: "RE your signature....drawing from an old Star Trek episode....YES I do discriminate against you since my left hand is White and my right hand is Black !" Care to explain this?

Les and Terry,
I do understand your standpoint and have been observing and researching on the matter extensively. Terry, those who wish to do anything, take on any profession work hard to perfect their performance in it despite the fact that they are to be tested. My brother is a docotr, and his most ultimate pleasure is to study, search and research his field of work without any pressures imposed on him to do so other than his intrinsic desire to be so. He sits for exams and excels without being the least tense or afraid because he knows he will pass but he longs to excel ! He is now continuing his studies in the states and doing wonderful, amazing all those he is among.
Les, We here improve in our poetry and we here witness our improvement , enjoy it and celebrate it, not because someone taught us to or because we will sit for a test to do so. On the contrary, I was never really taught to write poetry, nor do I benefit from it in any materialistic way in my life. All there is to it is that it is self fulfilling, especially when one is among great people like you who feed the hunger and thirst to write better and capture beauty in all its forms in the most poetic way possible. You don't teach me, but I do look foraward to hearing your comments because they mean something to me and I value them and improve by them. No school or test can make that happen as much as you!

K.Q.

Thanks for your kind comments......what I was referring to was Gwydion's signature
"My left hand is black
and my right is white,
will you discriminate?"

K.Q.

One additional thought......some family members and their spouses are
high school teachers/counselors.......out of a group of 5, not one knew the meaning of the word "turgid"

It seems they only "study" enough to pass the required tests for certification and whatever additional credits they need for their jobs.

I gave Cousin Tom's fiancee a copy of The Onion's "Our Dumb Century", which I thought she would really appreciate since she's a social studies teacher.....once she read it,her comment was...."wow, I didn't realize The Onion has been around that long"

It's refreshing to come here and see teachers who have a genuine interest in knowledge and learning

I believe the only kind of test that has learned is a pop quiz. For other tests only determine how good you are a studying for a scheduled test.

I.T.

Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum

Thanks again Johhny!

Ink Ghost, Thanks but I am sorry to disagree!

Always an interesting and novel way of looking at things K.Q.

JP

Thanks JP , but I assure you it is not for the purpose of merely being different. I t is what I feel , see and believe!

Different is good. I'd like to meet you someday.

JP

So would I JP. It is one of the possible dreams. When I do ever come to the States or perhaps you to Jordan We will. I look forward to it!

Hey great bump, thank you Poker Guy/Gal.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

"As for "people get caught up thinking their grades dictate their self-worth" Children do and i think it is not healthy to do so as we are not machines, always ready to perform according to set expectations by other: standards!"


But that's not the test that inculcates that, it's the philosophy they (most of us) are raised upon - live for others as opposed to living for yourself.

VH

Wow, good stuff, VH.

"live for others as opposed to living for yourself."

This is not natural, the selfish gene dictates:

"Most of what is unusual about man can be summed up in one word: culture'. I use the word not in its snobbish sense, but as a scientist uses it. Cultural transmission is analogous to genetic transmission in that, although basically conservative, it can give rise to a form of evolution. Geoffrey Chaucer could not hold a conversation with a modern Englishman, even though they are linked to each other by an unbroken chain of some twenty generations of Englishmen, each of whom could speak to his immediate neighbours in the chain as a son speaks to his father. Language seems toevolve' by non-genetic means, and at a rate which is orders of magnitude faster than genetic evolution. "

Source
Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene''
[www.rubinghscience.org] />
but I'm no scientist so beware me, I guess.

Coin
"Try your wings"



Post Edited (05-03-05 15:50)

hear the echoes
in their haven? the gods
have left the hall
of heaven to wander
the earth's aloud
in spirit our spirit
wanders with
them as they seek
themselves

Well done, you should read the Lucifer Principle by Howard Bloom. It has a lot of detailed ideas like the Selfish Gene. About Geoffrey Chaucer, I bet he could have held his own in speech, did you ever read the Miller's Tale!

"live for others as opposed to living for yourself."

This is not natural, the selfish gene dictates:

I don't give much credence to the "selfish gene", Coin. There's another school of thought that's talking about the "altruistic gene" so go figure! If we have both then we're probably all doomed to eternal confusion. I put it down to 'ideas' in peoples heads. Some people will approach a test with trepidation, for others it presents a personal challenge, for others it's all so.... ho hum, and who gives a *%# anyway. The difference between them is the different ideas about life, the world, and ones place in it.

VH

We have a selfish gene yes, a social selfish gene, the altruist gene is used for the survival of the whole, regardless of its individual parts i.e....us.

Now to say we should live for others would follow suit, right, wrong, there has to be an even ground of people or societies on each side for it to function correctly, so in that sense, only some of us should live for others.

VH and Satirical

I'm not an expert, so beware me.

I feel that sometimes, not all the time either but sometimes it helps to have an insight into where ideas are coming from. I do a little research and I share the results, which, hopefully spark debate. If it's not called for I look at poetry, lyrics and "chill".


Coin



Post Edited (05-11-05 16:27)

Well now I thought we were debating not arguing, and I am cold enough. Semantics are great too.

Satirical

I'm not arguing , see how I smile

Coin



Post Edited (05-11-05 16:45)

I meant to lol, sorry.

Easy mistake to make, no problem.

Coin



Post Edited (05-11-05 17:14)

VH

I'm not a scientist.

"Language seems to `evolve' by non-genetic means, and at a rate which is orders of magnitude faster than genetic evolution. "

I found this interesting. I would like to know more.

Coin

Language has evolved as much as it needs to have evolved for itself to point in the direction that our species will eventually reach. Keep in mind now absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Then again, you did not direct that to me, sorry.

Satirical

Re: "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."


lol, just amazed and grateful that anyone answered my question, thanks.

"Language has evolved as much as it needs to have evolved for itself to point in the direction that our species will eventually reach."*


Yes, however, what if you just made that up.


Coin



Post Edited (05-11-05 19:24)

AAAAHHHHH that is hilarious, holy and I mean holy crap. I love you Coin, sincerely, you are a funny person.

Of course it is made up. Any original idea always is. Unless someone had thought of this first, that happens to me a lot.

It's already been discussed, though.

*
A different view of translation.
<[www.emule.com] />
I'm quite serious actually.

Okay, well just forget it then, I'll figure it out by myself.

Coin



Post Edited (05-11-05 19:30)

I see what you mean, but how far could we assume? Lets take it a bit further. I am also quite serious about this, pardon me, but I nor you can see facial and other expressions through our medium. And if you would like to figure it out by yourself, that is fine, and I apologize for my hinderance.

Satirical

I'm genuinely grateful, it's kind of you to try.

My "problem" is simple how is it possible to be "creative" when creationalists will insist that there is no such thing? If this is the case then I considered how that would effect lanuage and its evolution. I really am an annoying pain in the neck about this question because I can't seem to rationalize it in my own mind. Please don't be angry.

Coin

No no I am not angry at all, please do not let the bruntness of the type change the meaning.

That is a nice question you have their, and I believe that I must contemplate and research a bit more before I can 1be of better service that just lip service. Before I do that though I do not know if I would be thinking about that question in the same way. Usually when creationalist talk, I am on the other side of the argument.

No problem Satirical,

You have a big heart, personally I think that's nice and I'll deck anyone who disagrees!!, lol.

Coin



Post Edited (05-12-05 04:41)

Watch what path your on though lol! I swear I am just joking.

Ah! the road to hell, I know, lol.



Coin

If that is where it leads, then you will have an enormous amount of company. I believe I read somewhere that the only true christian died about two thousand years ago. Regardless of the meaning, I thought it was funny.

Satirical

Funny in a bad way?

Coin

Funny in a hear this my whole life and been forced to acsend in the modern mode of thought, but wait someone has deviated in the past, kind of way.

Interesting discussion pals! I'm taking this to TOK class! Thanks.

K.Q
I'm sorry did I miss something? what is TOK class? You might feel that you would like to add something to the conversation first, I mean before plundering its contents.

Satirical
"Funny in a hear this my whole life and been forced to acsend in the modern mode of thought, but wait someone has deviated in the past, kind of way."

This makes no sense

Coin



Post Edited (05-12-05 04:35)

Okay, to return to my original question which appears to have been lost in the "chill".

"I feel that sometimes, not all the time either but sometimes it helps to have an insight into where ideas are coming from. I do a little research and I share the results, which, hopefully spark debate. If it's not called for I look at poetry, lyrics and "chill".

"How is it possible to be "creative" when creationalists will insist that there is no such thing? If this is the case then what are the effects on lanuage and its evolution?"

I liked Veronika's addition on Stem's post "Rainbow", the Federico Lorca quote:

"The state of being inspired is a state of contemplative retreat, but not a state of creative drive. It is necessary to let the vison of the concept rest for a while so it can become clearer. I believe no great artist works in such a state of fever. Even the mystics start to work when the ineffable dove of the Holy Spirit leaves their cell and disappears into the clouds. One returns from inspiration as from a foriegn country. The poem is the narrative of the journey. The inspiration gives the image, but does not clothe it. And to dress it one must with equanimity and without dangerous excitement observe the quality and the tone of the word."

And then, of course, there is Peter's:

"Like every other poet I create this stuff out of the 'nothing that is there'
(Stevens)." - - Peter

Just kind of interested, I guess.

Also, "Who is Dr Phill"?.


Coin

"Creation
Is the last thing occurring
Here, now. Forced weather rains locks enough
To seal Earth. What blasphemy are we part of?"
- - -K.Q



Post Edited (05-12-05 06:19)

Coin, Satirical John, I will comment briefly for now until I can collect my thoughts in more detail:

TOK is short for Theory of Knowledge. It is a course offered for IB Diploma students , grades 11 and 12. Interesting course to explore the philosophy behind all areas of knowledge. Your discussion is an interesting one, and although I don't teach the course, I always feel free to barge in with ideas like these.

this question was raised: "How is it possible to be "creative" when creationalists will insist that there is no such thing? If this is the case then what are the effects on lanuage and its evolution?"
I tend to agree with John on this one, Coin. And I quote him as I too believe this to be true:"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." The word "creationalist" itself is an addition to language, added to fulfill a descriptive function of this group, isn't it?

I apppreciate the ideas behind "The Selfish Gene''. Interesting. I will further look into it.

John, I like the way you express yourself: Funny in a [hear-this-my-whole-life-and been forced to acsend in the modern mode of thought], but wait someone has deviated in the past, kind of way. Interesting way to put it and perceive time as well!

"How is it possible to be "creative" when creationalists will insist that there is no such thing? If this is the case then what are the effects on lanuage and its evolution?"- - - Coin

*"I tend to agree with John on this one, Coin. And I quote him as I too believe this to be true:"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." The word "creationalist" itself is an addition to language, added to fulfill a descriptive function of this group, isn't it? "- - -K.Q

*"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."- - -John



This may be true but it doesn't answer the question, thanks for your help.

I'll shut up now *thanks

Coin



Post Edited (05-12-05 08:09)

Well, Coin, what do you think? Do you believe it possible to be creative? If proven impossible, will it influence your belief?

So as to not seem misleading, that "absence of evidence" was a quote by the late Dr. Carl Sagan in his two books "Demon Haunted Worldcience as a candle in the dark, and Gardens of Eden."

K.Q

I have asked around and always seem to get a negative or angry response, which is pretty depressing.

As for any religious beliefs that I may or may not have and whether they would be influenced, no, not really.

I just would like to know so that I can conduct myself in a manner that will not offend, anyone really and to satisfy my own mind.


Satirical

Cool, I'm looking it up as we speak.

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Is a good quote to start from at least, thanks.

Coin



Post Edited (05-12-05 19:48)

"I just would like to know so that I can conduct myself in a manner that will not offend, anyone really and to satisfy my own mind."

Hi Coin,

I don't really know you, as I do not often read the user submitted forum, but I can answer your question. This applies to you as to any other person using this website.

Keep in mind the website is not yours, but created by some fun loving people for public use. The moderators simply moderate to keep the website as pleasant as it has been since before there even was a user submitted part.

It is not hard to not have your posts edited if you use a bit of common sense:

- do not use offensive language.
- do not insult people
- do not generalize (so no general politic remarks about the americans, russians or whatnot).

It's been working for years like this, and I'm sure you as a poet can come up with non-offensive ways to make your point.

Desi