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Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (212.118.14.---)
Date: January 22, 2004 07:18AM

Encountering it,
You feel a sudden drop,
As if a weight fell
Deep into your well.

A splash of echoes
Replenishes your soul,
Except for the mass
Of lumpy substance.

The sound in your head
Mutters: Life must go on.
You feel better, braver
At the sound of reality.

But the clumpy lump
Provokes your comfort:
Is life an eternal heaven,
Compared to a death’s hell?

Crawling out of your shell,
You plunge into a truth,
Crash into a realization:
Dead is another form of being!



Post Edited (01-26-04 03:27)


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: -Les- (---.trlck.ca.charter.com)
Date: January 22, 2004 11:54AM

K.Q., for most of us I think your final sentence is a stretch of the imagination. The poem's construction is good and it flows well. But we in the West might have a hard time buying the conclusion.

Les


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: c ad (---.strl1201.mi.comcast.net)
Date: January 22, 2004 04:26PM

I can't quite seem to bring myself to read this poem without expressing how I feel about the point of life and death vs. heaven and hell: if there is anything I think I know it's that life is not heaven. If life is anything at all it's hell.

Personally, I tend to be persuaded by the more existential view on things, though.

Cad


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Shadow of the Light (208.14.26.---)
Date: January 22, 2004 09:38PM

I happen to agree with Cad.

I thought that the poem was beautiful. You have some nice ideas here.

~Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to the light.~

"Show me a hero and I shall write you a tragedy."

I LOVE YOU! (God does too.)


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (217.144.12.---)
Date: January 23, 2004 02:26AM

Dear Les,
I appreciate your taking time to look into this poem and comment on it. I don't understand the "we" vs."you" tone, though. Nevertheless, it is customary that when people lose a dear one, even in the East, they weep for his/her loss as if life were better than death! To me , I think the sorrow comes from the personal loss one feels, which is a good selfish feeling.Yet if you really think of it, why are we so resentful of the state of death although we know nothing about it? Therefore, cad and Shadow, the association of life with heaven is intended to provoke, as death is not necessarily hell either ,which simply leads to my conclusion!Thank you all !


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: -Les- (---.trlck.ca.charter.com)
Date: January 24, 2004 02:28AM

K. Q. I'm sorry if I cannot comment on everyone's poems, but if you will go to the following link you will see that I do comment on as many as I can:

[tinyurl.com] />
The number at the top right of the list represents the number of entries I've made in the last 14 months. I can't please everyone, that I know. That is just a fact of life for someone who is bold enough to try to impart their knowledge to others.

I have been a teacher for over 30 years and in that time I have had many naysayers. It hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for the language or my efforts to help those who wish to improve.

Thank you for your concern. You have shown a very mature attitude in our differences of opinion. I appreciate that.


Les


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (217.144.12.---)
Date: January 24, 2004 04:55AM

Thanks a lot Les, for showing the real you! I appreciate the fact that you took the trouble to respond to me and always do for all of us out here. I really don't mind differences in opinion for if they are anything , they are very healthy. It just concerns me that you're so good at what you do , yet you sometimes react in a way that turns some extra sensitive people off. Be careful of your moods and try to avoid strong reactions toward those you suspect can't handle them. Thank you once again for your presence; it is one of the experiences in my life that I value a lot!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: January 24, 2004 07:54AM

Small point. Should be 'Replenishes' in line 6.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (212.118.14.---)
Date: January 26, 2004 04:28AM

Point taken;thank Ian. I already fixed it!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: psychofemale (---.accel.atl.earthlink.net)
Date: January 26, 2004 05:50PM

this was very good...
straight to the point....smiling smiley.

~and now you fade away, you're all i was before.~ one less reason


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (217.144.12.---)
Date: January 27, 2004 06:20AM

Thanks psychofemale.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: lgreen (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: January 27, 2004 11:24AM

KQ: thought provoking---the saddest part f death is the "human" connection..sometimes there are worse fates than death.......very interesting read...........Ell


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (217.144.12.---)
Date: January 27, 2004 01:52PM

Very true! Thanks for the comment!I appreciate it.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Shadow's Breath (---.tmsrvo01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: November 23, 2004 09:38PM

K.Q., I went back and read this poem as you mentioned that it related to "An Angel's Casket". The moment I found out about my nephew I thought I might drown in the tears. Your depiction of a weight plunging into a well gows hand in hand with the feelings of losing a loved one. As for rationalizing death, I dont think it is possible. We can tell ourselves that we are a braver person, but inside we are not but frightened children. I often wonder about how one may be able to rationalize, and this is my conclusion; I am in no way afraid of death, but afraid of leaving, or being left behind.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: November 23, 2004 09:46PM

Just as thought povoking as ever. We can depend on you to take us where we didn't know we could go.

Thanks

Peter


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (---.118.31.34.ua.batelco.jo)
Date: November 24, 2004 03:33AM

I do see your point SB, and do agree that grief is personal. on another death issue, this is a poem I wrote when my uncle died. It is personal!!I will copy it here to save the effort of digging it up.

His twenty seventh birthday
Gave birth to my first poem.
Wanting to give a gift from
The pocket of my own thoughts,
I poured love in a spoonful of words.
Three times older, his charismatic
Character instigated the best in me.

Now, I see but frozen moments
That once were; now, cease to be.
And I rationalize all I may and can,
But loss in death is personal: my own
Pocket of pain again, spending
From a store of memories mixed
With heartbeats, tears and a lasting smile.

His tragic flaw was impatience,
Harshly defeated by time. Time,
His one enemy, gave him a last
Leap into tomorrow, and left us all
To reap the salty rain of our gazes,
As we loosened the grip unwillingly
To give in to life: tides washing away time.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.rr.com)
Date: March 31, 2005 09:35PM

The last line provoked and sparked controversy which brought up the meanings you delved into with heaven and hell and the thoughts of yours therein. Beautifully done, as well. I enjoyed the wording and the depth of the poem. Death is such a hot topic, it sparks the inner person to arms when they feel as if they being influenced by another view, as seen. I do not know if I agree with you that death is another form of being, but that is only because, I do not know! Certainty for or against is not possible on this notion, believe me I sell life insurance lol. I do so enjoy your work, it warms the frost time tends to leave.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Select Samaritan (---.marysvale.dyn.personainc.net)
Date: April 01, 2005 01:09AM

I don't see the last line as an optimistic edict. Rather, it can be construed as a cold, hard fact (no pun intended). More tomorrow.

-SS-


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Select Samaritan (---.marysvale.dyn.personainc.net)
Date: April 01, 2005 01:00PM

"I don't see the last line as an optimistic edict. Rather, it can be construed as a cold, hard fact (no pun intended). More tomorrow."

Allow me to elaborate. But first...

Khalida,

Upon encountering this poem
I felt a sudden drop,
as if a weight fell
deep into my well.

The first stanza is, I think, amazing. It hits one with the powerful impact that only truth, and truth experienced by both the writer and the reader I might add, can. And once this mutualism is realized, one gets a real jolt.

Encountering it,
You feel a sudden drop,
As if a weight fell
Deep into your well.

Moreover it hints at, or perhaps more accurately, portends more instances of the purely sublime to come. The reader at this point has high expectations of getting slapped in the face with more of these artfully presented realizations. And these expectations are indeed realized. However, some problems are encountered...

First off though, let me give a small explanation for what I'm about to say. Rarely am I as captivated and concurrently disappointed by a poem here on the mule. Please note though, that I'm only "disappointed" as I hold your writing, and particularly, this poem, in such high regard.

That said, I'd like to go through this:

A splash of echoes
Replenishes your soul,
Except for the mass
Of lumpy substance.

Although I can appreciate the allegory (whether intentional or not) present within the word, "soul" (especially within the context of the subject of this poem), I have too many problems with its cliched use to take it seriously. It's one of those words that is just so hard to take seriously this day & age. Perhaps you or some other would agree?

The sound in your head
Mutters: Life must go on.
You feel better, braver
At the sound of reality.

Life must go on. Again there is the ole cliche. I think you should ask yourself whether or not there is another way of saying that; of conveying that idea differently.

Other than that, I absolutely love this poem. It's utterly profound in its everyday simplicity, and dare I say, borders on greatness?

Yes I've said it. It borders on greatness. And with time (if you decide to do so) I think this could be re-written into something absolutely magical. And it's not bad now!

As for my original thoughts, people seem to be caught-up on a very one-dimensional view of the last line. And though it may be reinforced by other aspects of the poem, I feel that at the very least it's but one layer present. Because rather than a purely abstract trip through one's thoughts on death, this poem is more rooted in the tangible aspects that all people can grasp. Hence, we the readers are left with a "factual" sense of the unknown realities of human existence as opposed to the "potentially" fanciful notions of Eternal Life as seen through one's own subjective worldview. And in essence, yes, death is simply another form of being.

-SS-


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (213.186.179.---)
Date: April 01, 2005 04:35PM

Wow, I am really impressed this regenerated comments! Thank you .

Satirical, Thank you for the kind words. You did hit a nail there. Not knowing is the issue; and since we don't we can't judge. When this was written it was inspired by a major tragic event at my school where one of our graduates fell ill and passed away. My students are my own I feel, and I was really moved to a point where I couldn't cry. Her mother, our colleague, also appeared to be so strong in facing her daughter's death; it was amazing. I guess it is beyond just belief in an after life that is promised. It has more to do with worlds of being, and whether knowing or not is what conditions our feelings.
S.S. Thank you too for the lengthy, in-depth , and kind response. Recollecting the sentiment when this was written, I think more of it as a letting go in accaeptance and contentment feeling, than "cold, hard fact" one. However, it is true that the last line is not "an optimistic edict". As for the cliche's , I guess my problem was one with the culture of language. In my language, there is one word for both soul/spirit [rooh]and that was what I wanted to write, but fell short at. In addition, having another language sometimes blinds me from realizing that an expression is actually cliche'!
As for the other one, I meant it to be one as it is an expression everybody uses for the occasion. I think I was trying to capture that, hoping the context would carry it further:

The sound in your head
Mutters: Life must go on.
You feel better, braver
At the sound of reality.

Is there another way of saying that? I promise to think of one, but then I guess I'll write another poem.

"It borders on greatness." [blush]!! I am not trying to be humble, but I think I'd like 'greatness' to be a live dream rather than a dead presence, by never accomplishing it. But thank you so much!!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Select Samaritan (---.marysvale.dyn.personainc.net)
Date: April 02, 2005 11:42AM

"I am not trying to be humble, but I think I'd like 'greatness' to be a live dream rather than a dead presence, by never accomplishing it."

Assuming of course that greatness is only realized after one's death. But even then it's naught but cognizant reflections of a particular person's accomplishments. And I admittedly see no compelling reason why someone's achievements can't be fully recognized before they shuffle off this mortal coil. But that's just me...

-SS-


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (213.186.177.---)
Date: April 02, 2005 03:09PM

I respect your view fully SS. Thanks for all!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: hutto (---.ma.dl.cox.net)
Date: April 10, 2005 11:44PM

I'm sorry I read this and I couldn't help but think what your inspiration was in writing this. The poem itself does not make sense to me and I would very much like to know what you meant this poem to be interpreted as. All in all, what drove you to this illusion?

~My old man always swore that hell would have no flame. Just a front row seat to watch your true love pack her things and walk away~


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Coin (82.109.88.---)
Date: April 11, 2005 06:40AM


This is good and has no facial, enjoyed.

Coin
"Try your wings"


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Marty (---.247.72.102.up.mi.chartermi.net)
Date: April 11, 2005 07:01AM

K.Q.

Encountering it,
You feel a sudden drop,
As if a weight fell
Deep into your well


As good as any description I've ever read/heard to describe the receipt of news about the death of a loved one.

It differs from the receipt of any old bad news or riding on a ferris wheel when one might get that sudden drop in the pit of their stomach.

Love the imagery of a person's "well" and how you have used it to describe the feeling of loss in the finality of death.

Marty


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (---.118.31.34.ua.batelco.jo)
Date: April 11, 2005 08:27AM

Hutto, you ask:"what drove you to this illusion?". I think you have already judged me. I accept that. In previous threads I tried to explain myself. If you wish , you can read; if not, i also accept that! thanks for reading. I appreciate it.

Coin, it does have a facial title to it, but I didn't post it! Thanks for reading!

Marty, I always look forward to reading your comments, especially when my "well" is a bit dry these days. Thanks a lot!!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: hutto (---.ma.dl.cox.net)
Date: April 11, 2005 07:10PM

Then I suppose my question is do you accept all forms of criticism?

~My old man always swore that hell would have no flame. Just a front row seat to watch your true love pack her things and walk away~


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Keeper of Light (---.gcecisp.com)
Date: April 11, 2005 08:45PM

Wow.....you so smart....


"Loving people is like farting in the wind; You don't actually accomplish anything, but you feel better."

~The Great and Powerful Angelia~


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (---.118.31.34.ua.batelco.jo)
Date: April 12, 2005 03:40AM

"...all forms of criticism?" Well I am open minded as I can be, and try to stretch that even further; go ahead and be my guest.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: aradia (---.230.90.189.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net)
Date: April 15, 2005 01:08AM

I like the last lines contrary to what everyone else says cause they go with wahat you are saying and truely have a deep meaning i guess it just depends on the reader but for me death is another form of being and dont you hate how this forum gamngs up on people and only read the ones everyone else reads or attacks like a group of dogs not relizing everyone is there own individual not a pack and act like they ARE SO BUSY reading others when the truth is half of the people that are not in there pack of vultures never even get read which i also understand is up to them idividually pos pobre yo!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: April 15, 2005 01:24AM

Why are you trashing good people? Everyone I know in this forum takes the time to read new posters, help out new poems, offer advice and encouragement to all comes in their own terms, even if it is just to say, 'nice poem.' I post once a day, usually one poem. If I got a rocket in my pocket, more. I read until I have read everything posted at least once a week. My time is given to writing my own stuff and getting my life straght. Think about what you say about good people.

Peter

Answer me at my eMail address if you like, but please don't get on people's backs.

shalom


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: aradia (---.230.90.189.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net)
Date: April 15, 2005 01:30AM

im sorry they trashed me so i only felt that it was right for me to return the favor i guess i was wrong but i just wanted my brother to have some kind of incouragement cause he's on the verge of droppin g out but all they care about is how many poems i put up therefore they dont read them


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (---.118.31.34.ua.batelco.jo)
Date: April 16, 2005 02:33AM

Aradia, thank you for the support. I appreciate it. As for the comment on responses of people, I think a bit of patience will be helpful. It has been many times that a poem of mine didn't receive much comments, but then I would not volunteer to judge people by that. I believe everybody has a reason when doing or not doing something. So, I guess I'm saying hang in, and try to not judge by what you don't see ! Be well!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Coin (---.range81-155.btcentralplus.com)
Date: April 24, 2005 06:31AM


rhymes with cher?

Nice work K.Q, a strange bump facial expression?

Coin
"Try your wings"


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (213.186.177.---)
Date: April 24, 2005 04:09PM

Thanks , Coin. I appreciate it!


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: Adler (---.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net)
Date: April 25, 2005 09:59AM



Well KQ, I have been away, but you have obviously been hard at work.

Though probably not in the charecter it was intended, I thought the last line provoked opposite meaning, that death is the ultimate realisation, and that we in our conscious awareness are in fact dead every day to the true nature of our reality. When I am allways grieved with death, I think it such an unatural thought, this interest and investment in others? But then, is there anything else of interest?

It did however, sound a little crammed whn I attempted to recite it out aloud.

Though great work smiling smiley


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: K.Q. (---.118.31.34.ua.batelco.jo)
Date: April 26, 2005 09:31AM

Well, Adler, I guess this bumped up old piece has stirred some chaos! Thank you for reading into it! Valid questions you raise, and we all have different answers! I appreciate your words, and what they express from what they see. Thanks again.


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Re: Rationalizing Death
Posted by: stem (210.18.156.---)
Date: May 20, 2005 09:17AM

great as it is always, i like the flavour of ur poetry.
stem


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