Out there on the edge of town
lies a crumbling railroad track,
I set my feet to running
and I never can go back.

I left my love behind me
lying in a drainage ditch,
I caught her with another man
so I up and killed the bitch.

But now the hounds are chasing me,
my race is nearly run,
there's no where left for me to go
as I slowly pull my gun.

The barrel is cold against my head,
eternity is near.
There's just the sound of thunder
with no one there to hear.



Post Edited (09-09-04 19:56)

Hi J.H.,

First of all, I like how you were able to rather vividly capture a definitely tragic and macabre story in your poem; but, what does not particular set well with me is how it's seemingly told from the perspective of the protagonist as narrator in a somewhat sympathetic vein. Though I can duly feel for his devastation with his lover's betrayal; I cannot,however, feel any sympathy, whatsoever, for his taking of her life nor his own. Usage of a wondrous and fascinating occuring natural phenomenon such as "thunder" to compare or parallel such a dastardly deed as his own suicide, I find also, is a bit 'disturbing' to my(one's) sensibilities.

Namaste,
Jazzy

I agree with Jazzy regarding the disturbing overtones of suicide and killing people.

SWAMPANGEL

Thanks for reading and replying to my poem. It is based on a true story and I tried to write it as matter of factly as I could. Any hint of sympathy is purely accidental.

Swampangel, thanks for the opinion. Murder/suicide is always disturbing. Unfortunately, they are part of life. This incident happened in 1990 in the area I lived in in New Mexico.

Jazzy sez: "...what does not particular set well with me is how it's seemingly told from the perspective of the protagonist as narrator in a somewhat sympathetic vein."

I must disagree. If the story were to be told from the point of view of the killer, wouldn't he naturally tell it to explain his actions and therefore try to instill sympathy in the reader? It's just common sense.
Just because the murderer is the narrator, it doesn't mean that the poem or the author of it is condoning murder. The narrator is a character, and so is free to express the circumstances as he sees them. Must the narrator always be a squeaky-clean, honorable hero? I don't think so -- it wouldn't be human.

Hi Athenian,

Again an instance I believe where you are construing or oversimplifying something to an extreme. I was in no way implying that the narrator need be an honorable hero or antihero, or sqeaky-clean as you seemingly try to portray me as doing. I was more or less pointing out that the way the poem is told could be interpreted as somewhat a sense of glorification of what this "monster" of a protagonist has done. For there is no way the writer could actually get inside the head of this real life figure, so he apparently imagines what he thinks might have been on his mind. But just as sometimes TV can be negatively suggestive, I believe that is also the case here. What if some reader of it some months, years down the road encounters a similar situation and recalling it decides; " hey, I'm gonna 'take the bitch out' like that cool poem I once read and go out myself in a blaze of thunder. Who knows, maybe somebody will write a cool poem about me?"
Maybe a bit far-fetched or somewhat a stretch, but listening to the daily news not really very much. Therefore my somewhat trouble with although this character's actions may not have been outrightly condoned, by virtue of their presentation in a neutral instead of hideous vein or mildly glorified ("my race is nearly run...", so unlike a track race where a gun starts the race with a bang, here he decides to "coolly" end it with a boom of thunder which he seemingly supposes somewhat "coolly" again, that there will be "no one there to hear," rather unlikely).

Namaste,
Jazzy

Thanks for the feedback re:Faces of Love

re:The Sound of Thunder
I suppose that such an incident would have a great emotional impact and could inspire such brutal writing. And if this was an incident that hit close to home it's good that you can express how you feel. What I would like to see is the first lines....'the crumbling railroad track' portray the breakdown of this relationship and the suicide/murder be less vivid. Leaving a bit to our imaginations, letting the reader know what happened and at the same time telling the story without such vivid detail.
But hey, it's your poem......keep writing!!!

SWAMPANGEL

Jazzy sez: "What if some reader of it some months, years down the road encounters a similar situation and recalling it decides; 'hey, I'm gonna 'take the bitch out' like that cool poem I once read and go out myself in a blaze of thunder. Who knows, maybe somebody will write a cool poem about me?'"

I don't want to makes this into a big deal or anything, but I still strongly disagree. The argument that a poem could cause such violence is similar to arguments against violent television shows, movies, song lyrics, video games, etc. I do not believe that it is the object itself (that is, the poem) that could make a regular person suddenly go into 'killing mode.' After all, many people view violent media everyday, and most of them don't imitate what they see. Obviously, the problem lies in the person, who was teetering on the brink to begin with.
It's like mixing chemicals. If chemical A (violent images) mixes with chemical B (the general public), there can be said to be various effects. If chemical A mixes with chemical C (more impressionable future killers), then there can be a dangerous reaction. Surely, the danger lies in chemical C, not chemical A.

Jazzy sez: "Someone's acting just a bit immature."

Athenian, anyone's entitled to his or her opininon in a matter of how some piece of art impacts them. Say, some picture hanging in a museum. I would not expect you or anyone else to necessarily feel or see it exactly as I do, and I would think or hope you'd feel likewise.

I merely expressed my sentiments regarding the poem and rendered rather sound reasons for feeling so. It doesn't bother me if you happen not to see or feel similar sentiments; I can respect that. It does not call for a debate or referendum on anyone being wrong or right; or who disagrees more with the other's viewpoint.

After all, that's the whole concept behind interpretation, analysis, and dissection of a particular "piece of art." One needn't take anything quite so personally in such a discussion; as one can subjectively state his or her viewpoint while being as objective and respectful as possible of whatever valid, solid oppositional views.

Namaste,
Jazzy

Hi Jazzy!

sigh... Well, I don't see how my responses came off as "immature," "extreme," or being overly "personal," since I was just trying to present logical and relevant counter-arguments. I agree with you that "anyone's entitled to his or her opininon in a matter of how some piece of art impacts them," but considering the main issue at hand was whether or not a poem could glorify and produce more violence, that excuse wouldn't hold up in court.
I also agree that "the whole concept behind interpretation, analysis, and dissection of a particular 'piece of art'" is based on subjective opinion. This usually pertains to the meaning of a poem, though, not whether it has the ability to alter a person's behaviour to the point of murder.
The main point I wanted to get across is that I do not believe that a piece of art, such as a poem, can manipulate an average person into committing murder out of the blue. The person must already possess dangerous, violent tendencies to begin with. Personally, I did not find the poem to be glorifying murder at all -- I realized that the narrator had done something wrong, and that we were merely seeing the events from his own perspective. If someone were to read the poem and be inspired to act like the narrator, that person is already very unstable and overly-impressionable (the poem is merely the 'straw that broke the camel's back'). In short, if the poem convinces them that murder is "cool" and that they should do it, then they probably would have come to this conclusion without the poem's help.
Anyway, I realize that we disagree on this issue. And yes, it's good that we do. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it seems that our reaction to the poem may be a metaphor for our back-and-forth debating. You seem to find things in the poem that I do not think are there, just as you seem to find emotional, illogical, extreme outbursts in my own responses, which I honestly don't think exist.
I don't know, perhaps we're both reading too far into things. I'm not picking a fight here, and I hope we can continue to have more friendly disagreements in the future (I have a feeling I would disagree with you on a great many things). Disagreeing is good for so many reasons!

To jazzy and Athenian -- get a grip you two! Dissagreeing is fine but let's get on to the next subject!!!
J.H. expressed, created, submitted and you two just go on and on like there's nothing else to do.
Your long winded conversations are boring and redundant.

SWAMPANGEL

Hi Swampangel,

Although I agree with you that it's time to move on to the next subject, as we (especially, Athenian and I ) have nearly ( not quite, totally though ) exhausted this particular one; I must take strong objection to your apparent intended directives and overall admonitory overtones.

This is still America, last time I checked (the good 'ole' USA ), with freedom of speech and expression! And that's one dimension of why this site is so wonderful as it allows one to truly exercise these freedoms in an absolutely marvelous and expansive manners!

Now, just "who are you?" to deem yourself the "thought police," "response patrol," or "on site-traffic-director!?!" I really don't think you mean to try to undertake any such role, and would likely prove quite unqualified to do so.
First of all, I think Athenian and I are to be commended for engaging in such a passionate, thought-provoking, in-depth, and healthy debate. That's what so wrong with most avenues and arenas of communication and debate, as they seem not to allow or encourage any real depth or oppurtunity to explore anything beyond a superficial, cusory level. You know, the proliferate talk-show media and ever popular news sound bites that our society and world has become so accustomed to and comfortable with. In essence, somewhat like fast-food, fast-thought or fast-talk on-the-go.
And just like this ever popular fast-food, this kind of fast and shallow thinking and communication is equally lacking in anything really substantive and mentally or spiritually nourishing or filling; leaving one feeling quite hollow and empty soon after ingesting, partaking of such. So, J. Parrotte, please "get a grip" yourself, sir, and don't be so quick to condemn or try to thwart a healthy, lively debate (even if a bit redundant, it's still better than the obverse). And if you truly find it boring (which I don't honestly think you actually do ); like television, you can just "tune out" or merely change the channel. Let's encourage and keep all positive expression and exchange truly ALIVE!

Namaste,
Jazzy

P.S.- I'll just bet J.H., on some level is rather "tickled" (as most any 'artist' would be) that something of his could generate such an energetic, engaging exchange.

Boy, Jazzy, you really let him have it, didn't you? I have to salute your effort, even if it seems like overkill to me.

Our conversation may have strayed a little further from the original poem than usual, but it's still pretty much anchored in the topic of poetry.
Although, I do wish that this Poetry Submission board were more like the old board. In the General Discussion forum, you can read one response at a time, and skip the ones you've already seen. In this forum here, you're forced to read all the responses on one page. Both forums have their good and bad features, but once the number of responses gets up into the double-digits or so, this forum could become a real nuisance. It's almost as if we're being discouraged from discussing anything much at all.

Flat View is the default? What crazy person would have suggested such a change!

Well, at least we can click on the Threaded View, so I forgive them.

Wow! I had no idea that changing the "view" was an option! This is great. Thanks, Hugh!

After reading all of the responses to this poem, it makes me kinda mad. This poem was great. It gives you a visual and makes you feel these emotions that are shown in the poem itself. I don't know why everyone is getting all contraversal. This is a wonderful poem and that's all there is to it. I don't know why people can be so negative about someone's writing. It isn't written about or for those who critique it, it is written by the person who could have gone through a situation similar to that, or about someone else who has. And it's a fact of life that these things happen (murder/suicide) and it's better to hear what people think than to keep it all inside. And then when someone does finally get the courage to write it, you people can be so negative and discouraging. I hope that this doesn't offend anyone, but it's just from my perspective after reading all the responses. J.H, you did a great job, keep writing.
~kiki

I agree kiki, I liked it too.

jazzy,
You are absolutely correct about this being the USA. You also did a splendid job of 'putting me in my place'.
Being the master of vocabulary that you are, I'm sorry if I offended you with short to the point responses. And if I lack in writing enough 4 syllable words to satisfy you please accept my apology.

lebe wohl

SWAMPANGEL

I really like that, so visual!! I can just see the guy running down the tracks with the hounds after him, and he pulls out the gun and blows his brains out, all over a woman,just like a man to be that stupid.

I just got home from vacation. How nice to see all of your responses to my poem. I really appreciate all of your remarks. They are very helpful to me.Thanks again. J.H.Summers

J.H. Summers
After reading the many responses I must throw in my two cents.
The poem was thought provoking! Poetry is for ohhhhhhhh and ahhhhhhhs
and deep thoughts and I'd say you did provoke some deep conversations on the poem. I would agree the poem was visual, but also emotional!
There are alot of suicide, murder poems out there and alot of the very
best poets have even committed suicide! It is another avenue of life and death and poetry that needs to be explored! Keep writing!

Mary...aka Ladybug

Good-day Swampangel,

By the way, just curious, what's the derivation of that nickname? I paused to hesitate in responding to this particular post, as I did not wish to come off as reacting somewhat emotionally or maybe overreacting.

In response to your first paragraph, yes, I invoked the USA and the principle and right of freedom of speech and expression which most of cherish and hold so dear. But, unfortunately, we oftentimes take it for granted and lacking true appreciation can sometimes unconciously or conciously even thwart of stifle it. Something we would never want done to ourselves and should concientiously refrain from doing to others. And, I guess I did an adequate (don't know if it quite qualifies as 'spledid') job in making this point to you.

You definitely give me too much credit (and I'm sure are being just a bit facetious ) with the "master vocab" remark. And there was absolutely no offense, whatsoever, with your so-called short to the point responses. To the contrary, terseness truly has its' place and can be truly effective when masterfully used. However, in all sincerity (and I believe if you'd be honest, you would somewhat acknowledge) I think you have used a degree of obfuscation in your rather terse responses. But let's do, truly value and encourage any well-intentioned and thoughtful expression. For just try to imagine how horrible the arbitrary infringement and censorship of such would be.

Namaste,
Jazzy

*was rushing, so please excuse the several typos above. J.

I really enjoyed your poem. Reading it for the first time, I got that feeling you should get from a good, thought provoking piece of writing. Although I can’t relate to the killer, I can understand where he is coming from. This is something that happens a lot and I’m glad you chose to write about it in such a gripping and raw manner. Your poem is also very visual and I like works you can see in your mind. I have to say your analogy to thunder is very powerful.
It’s a dark evening, the sky is overcast and a storm is threatening to break.
I can picture a man, driven wild with rage and pain, stumbling along the dark train tracks. He stops, realizing for the first time the brutality of his vengeance, the futility of his flight and the full weight of his situation. The woman he loves is dead, he’s watched her die. He can’t go back home, he can’t keep running. He looks up at the brooding sky, thunder claps all around him. His sweat runs cold as he raises the gun; he presses it to his head and fires. He falls lifeless to the ground as the sound of thunder resonates in the electric air.

At least that’s the way I would film it. Thank you for submitting your piece.

Olivier.

Olivier, Thanks for responding to my poem. I appreciate all the feed back I've gotten. The only other thing I can add about the killer would be the cowardice of his actions. Instead of facing up to his responsibilities he took the easy way out.

WHOA!
1st: What a poem!!!
2nd: What a debate!!!

Dear Mr. J.H. Summers,
let me express that I loved that thing with every line and meaning - especially! Ain't nothing sophisticated - and agree with JP.

Silent Siren, Glad you liked the poem, thanks for letting me know. I was surprised by the amount of discussion that took place. Am looking forward to reading your work. Thanks again, auf wiedersehen.

bump

Poetry isn't always pretty........such is the case here. But, I was drawn to it like driving by an auto accident. You can't help but be intrigued and you go ahead and look. Poetry would be bland and boring without these little tid-bits of the darker side. Bravo to you J.H........kam

JHS: This was before my time on this forum--thanks Jack for bumping it up--

a poem about a man who cannot go back-cannot go forward--he created his own end---powerful poem---well done!!

Ell

Wow, this one generated quite a response. I still like it.

JP

Powerful poetry.. very powerful. The poem is very well written and sent me right there with this man that was running, the dogs chsing him dwon the track was my favorite line.

I agree that the poem is disturbing.. but murder IS disturbing so I think this poem catches that remarkably well... A great poem is going to cause some discussion.. this is an incredible piece... Loved it

Kim ~Ragamuffin~

Summers, very good and dark, gives a heavy burden type of feel.

-Shae

JHS: this is a very good poem. i don't believe i've ever read anything you've written that is dark. i enjoyed the last four lines most. very good.

Hi JH,

Blunt, raw and simple but powerfully emotional ... enjoyed reading the poem.

anwaar

Jack, Thanks for bumping this one up and thanks to all of you for reading and commenting on it. I was going for a gritty feel and I think I got it. jhs

Give me a break! if you do this much killing, you're not going to see

anything related to eternity. He just shot his way into hell where he will

burn forever and ever. Incidently this poem should go with him.

and that's MY humble opinion.

1stly THE WORK'S REALLY GREAT AND I APPRECIATE IT ALOT,THOU THE MEANING'S SIMPLE AND SO ARE THE WORDS, BUT THE IMPRESSION'S VERY DEEP,I REALLY ENJOYED IT AND ALSO THE MESSAGES THOU HAD TO SKIP SOME DUE TO SHORTAGE OF TIME,BUT ON THE WHOLE,EVERYONE'S VERY ENCOURAGING HERE AND SOMEONES U CAN REALLY DISCUSS THINGS WITH,NOW LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WHEN I'M GONNA SUBMIT MY POEM HERE RIGHT NOW...
Allah Hafiz!!
Sincerely Namra!

This is a powerful poem, regardless of whether you agree with the premise. I like the way you have captured the theme of hopelessness and desparation that a man in this position must have felt.

Les

I really liked the poem and thought it was a good story, well put.
Well done, thanks and the all the best.

Les, I appreciate your words very much. they mean a lot coming from you.

Namra, Glad you liked it and I'm hoping to see some of your work soon.

Sista, OUCH, what a scathing critique. Nevertheless I appreciate the comments. A poem should raise the feelings and emotions of those who read it. In that light I'd say I did a good job of doing just that in this case.

jhs

Homer 9, Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. jhs

Dear JH

I am new here......

I am the daughter of a man who committed suicide over a woman. My father did not kill her just himself.

In your words I found perhaps what I think he must have felt.

The sorrow, confusion, the urgency to escape comes through to me.....Perhaps because I was so close to something of the same emotion. Maybe I am reading between the lines....

I think it is extremely fine as it is......Freedom of expression is the gift of poetry itself. If we stifle the voice which speaks, as it speaks to us there is no poem.....

While for me killing someone might in effect of a normal mind be wrong.....
Thus not logical or allowable.....

For a person who has a fractured mind, it is that lack of a logical mind. This parts the sane from the insane....That is what lead him to murder her and kill himself in the first place.

Thank you for the insight into a very personal questionable thought......It has been nagging me for so very long..... Fran

Fran, Thank you for reading and replying to my poems, it is appreciated. Death can be very hard to deal with and writing helps me. If I have been able to help you as well then all the better. Thank you for your kind words and I hope we'll be seeing some of your poems as well. jhs

All these newbies mahah....Maybe im a newbie to the newbies maha. Im not sure what to say. Dark truely. Very emotional and sad yes. Very well written. Nice title. Ah yes J.H. Summer..Hehe will have a book one day.

Very well written.
Having lived in New Mexico for some time, I can tell you there is a certain amount of reason to shoot yourself for living here.

No matter the underlying reason, suicide is a permenent solution to a temporary problem. But you have painted it nicely. Keep up the good work.
You lived in Belin right?

Terry

Nolon, Thanks Nolon, it is appreciated.

Terry, I lived in Belen for 12 years before moving to Tennessee. I prefer the dry south-west to this humidity, but the Smokeys are nice. We hope to get back there or to Arizona some day. Glad you liked the poem.

jhs

This is worth another bump.

WOw.....so much drama ...It is not only a good poem but it also a good story. That should be enough in itself.
Boy...J.H.. if you got hit this hard on this one..I hope they stay away from some of mine ...haha..


By the way I liked it JUST the way it is...

Steve,

Thanks for reading, I'm glad you liked it.

jhs

newbies observe

wow! harsh!

John, a very powerful piece, great writing...unfortunately this scene is all too often true.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

Gwydion,

Thanks, glad you liked it.
And a tip of that hat to the bumper.

john

Sweetness! this was great!

Thy own reproach alone do fear.

Keeper,

Thank you, it is appreciated.

john

I liked it a lot John, thanks to all the people who bumped it back up to the top so I could read it.

There's just the sound of thunder
with no one there to hear.

Great ending, dark and powerful.

Dije

Faith Whittlesey: Remember, Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but she did it backwards and in high heels.

Dan,

Glad you liked it, thanks for reading and commenting.

john

I was trying to dig up a few of my favorites for the 'What poems have moved you' thresd.
I don't know how to do the tinyurl thing (No, Please don't teach me) soI will do what I do... which is...


bump

I still maintain that Tinyurl is an Arthurian Castle !

Nice item, Summers. I will have to disagree with the Athenian about getting into someone's head. It is the essence of sympathy and empathy, and Browning did it all the time - (I can't check the spelling this moment), PROPHARIA'S LOVER... (Propharia...? do I have it right?) is a "must read" item. And Summers, you do have the morality issue right: In the media (books, movies), characters who do bad things are supposed to get there "comeuppins" (just reward) one way or the other.

I personally like short items (perhaps it is attention deficit disorder), and "Thunder" does it. Four quatrains tells the whole story, and I was even feeling the railroad gravel and brush along the side... Essentially, longer than necessary writing often gets in the way of the message; it takes greater writing skill to write short; anyone can write an odessy; few can change the world in a quatrain.

Keep writing, Summers...


E.

When I caught my gal with some other dude
I up and murdered the back stabbing bitch
and left her body on the edge of town
sprawled bloody naked in a drainage ditch.

(or even . . . with some juiced up clown)

*
Dear John---

I wonder if by playing around with the language
and cutting and shuffling the lines a bit,

and maybe since it rhymes, strive for blank verse
to get it moving at an easier rate
might make this more compelling.

I like it a lot and how the language helps set its the tone and place.

xoxo,

Lisa



Post Edited (01-12-05 19:14)

Jack,
You must have rented a back-hoe to dig this one up with. Thanks.

Johnny,
I'm here to tell you that if you can get 30 minutes of material together you could get an hbo special.

Elliot,
Thank you Elliot, I appreciate your comments.

Lisa,
Interesting ideas you have there. Just goes to show you how many ways the same story can be told.

john



Post Edited (01-12-05 19:44)

Jack is such an e-tard, he thinks that RAM was Paul McCartneys last decent album. ;-)

Good Bump

A-Leenos,

It wasn't? (insert smiley face here)
Thanks for the read.

john

Just barely decent.

bump