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In Memorium
Posted by: Questor (---.ded.swbell.net)
Date: April 30, 2005 12:49PM

I'm looking for the Tennyson poem "In Memorium" from 1850. So far, I've been able to get phrases but not the entire poem. Anyone have a lead? or the poem?


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Beena Jain (---.cg.shawcable.net)
Date: April 30, 2005 01:45PM

I think it's here, it's much too long, seems like a few kilometers long to me, so just read it here at the original website -

[charon.sfsu.edu]


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Desi (---.adsl.proxad.net)
Date: April 30, 2005 02:32PM

In memoriam (note the spelling) is not ONE poem, but loads of them. He wrote them after the death of his best friend Arthur Hallam, when they were both students. Hallam was with his father abroad when he died, and his body was brought back by boat, which you can find reference to in some of the poems.

for all of them see:
[charon.sfsu.edu] />
here is one of them:

VII


Dark house, by which once more I stand
Here in the long unlovely street,
Doors, where my heart was used to beat
So quickly, waiting for a hand,

A hand that can be clasp'd no more --
Behold me, for I cannot sleep,
And like a guilty thing I creep
At earliest morning to the door.

He is not here; but far away
The noise of life begins again,
And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
On the bald street breaks the blank day.


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh16rt-04rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: May 01, 2005 11:23AM

The Toronto site has all 133 as well, with (some) footnotes and selected favorites:

[eir.library.utoronto.ca] />
Could Arthur have been more to Alfred than just a friend? Hmmm ...


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Questor (---.ded.swbell.net)
Date: May 01, 2005 02:56PM

Thanks! You're right-eighty pages on Word-had no idea it was so long, no wonder I couldn't find it with others. Whew!


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Questor (---.ded.swbell.net)
Date: May 01, 2005 02:59PM

Could be...could be....


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Marian-NYC (---.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
Date: May 02, 2005 12:34PM

I did a shallow search for information about the Tennyson-Hallam relationship. Everyone who writes (briefly, on-line) about it says that it was "probably not sexual" or "there is no evidence of a homosexual relationship." At the same time, people writing (briefly, on-line) about homosexual artists in love like to cite Tennyson-Hallam as examples.

There's another thread on this forum about how, in other periods of history, there weren't the same disctinctions between GAY and STRAIGHT, and how it was possible to live a heterosexual life and also have a male lover - e.g., Shakespeare. No need to repeat it here.


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: glenda (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2005 01:12PM

Isn't it also correct to assume that in other periods of history the close companionship between men was not put to the same homophobic tests of today? As an example, how about the latest biographies on Abe Lincoln?


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 02, 2005 11:36PM

Yep, here's Lincoln's gay poem. Next thing you know, they'll be saying Walt Whitman was

"I will tell you a Joke about Jewel and Mary

It is neither a Joke nor a Story

For Rubin and Charles has married two girls

But Billy has married a boy

The girlies he had tried on every Side

But none could he get to agree

All was in vain he went home again

And since that is married to Natty

So Billy and Natty agreed very well

And mama?s well pleased at the match

The egg it is laid but Natty?s afraid

The Shell is So Soft that it never will hatch

But Betsy she said you Cursed bald head

My Suitor you never Can be

Beside your low crotch proclaims you a botch

And that never Can serve for me


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 02, 2005 11:45PM

further proof from SLATE:

[slate.msn.com]


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Marian-NYC (---.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
Date: May 03, 2005 01:13PM

That is funny and instructive reading.


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Desi (---.adsl.proxad.net)
Date: May 03, 2005 06:22PM

"There's another thread on this forum about how, in other periods of history, there weren't the same disctinctions between GAY and STRAIGHT, and how it was possible to live a heterosexual life and also have a male lover - e.g., Shakespeare."

did I mention the attitude of some modern greeks? "I'm not a homo. Bah." "But you sleep with men!" "Yeah, so? That doesn't make me a homo!"

I like that one!


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 03, 2005 07:00PM

According to my Greek friend at work, there is a distinction (and separate words) for thos who give and those who take, and those who give don't consider themselves "gay"


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Desi (---.adsl.proxad.net)
Date: May 03, 2005 07:22PM

wow. I didn't get that deep into the conversation. Will check it out with my greek teacher.


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: May 04, 2005 11:36AM

I guess it matters whether one is the fellatee, or the irrumatior? We can save blumpkin for a later, uh, gamahuche.

[en.wikipedia.org]


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Desi (---.adsl.proxad.net)
Date: May 04, 2005 02:32PM

the answer from my greek teacher:

(greek encoding required to read this properly)

"about your greek question: yes, only the receiving
partner is seen as gay. all words for gay/homosexuell
are valid for him: poustis
πούστης = no
translation, a term used as well for everybody who is
not straight with you, has a bad character; sikia
συκιά = fig tree; aderfi
αδερφή =
sister;omofilifilos
ομοφυλόφυλος
= homosexual.
the other partner is seen as absolutely normal, since
he likes fucking whatever. in general sombody who
ass (kolos) is a kolobaras.

this has to do with identity, not with what happens in
reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you get a kolobaras in
the right moment you can **
the hell out of him smiling smiley

a lot of people, including gays who have problems with
their sexuality, still believe in this concept. but
there is as well a growing number of poeple, mostly
younger, who know that both partners in reality are
involved in either positions, depending on different
factors: whom they are having sex with, own current
age, current set of ages in the specific situation
etc. "


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Pam Adams (---.bus.csupomona.edu)
Date: May 04, 2005 04:15PM

Apparently, there are similar beliefs in American prisons- You're not gay if you have sex with men only when women aren't available.

pam


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 04, 2005 05:48PM

Gamahuche ! Good Gosh ! I haven't seen that since reading The Pearl !


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.phoenix-01rh15-16rt.az.dial-access.att.net)
Date: May 04, 2005 07:00PM

You're not gay if you have sex with men only when women aren't available.

Yeah, right. And guys on the 'down low' ain't gay neither. Personally, I can't see me ever springing a woody from looking at a guy's hairy butt. Losing one, sure.


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: paul turpin (---.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr)
Date: May 04, 2005 09:57PM

Whatever about Lincoln, rumour is that President Bush is gay. What's going on?


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: rikki (---.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: May 08, 2005 08:45PM

I recently read Before Night Falls, the autobiography of Cuban writer
Reinaldo Arenas. He says ‘in Cuba you don’t have to be a homosexual to
have a relationship with a man; men can have intercourse with other men as an ordinary act.’
He then says that the down side of his escape from Cuba and exile in New York was the different social perception that categorized all ‘queers’
together (his words, not mine) which makes it very difficult for a
homosexual to find a real man. Interesting.


Re: In Memorium
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 08, 2005 09:08PM

Mrs Bush
She hid the bananas
where Curious George can't find them




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