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on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 28, 2005 07:19PM

"all 'typographical' features are notations for the performance of the reading"

--Robert Duncan


Re: on the page
Posted by: rikki (---.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: March 28, 2005 07:42PM

If he means that the arrangement and appearance of the printed poem (or story or whatever) on paper - i.e punctuation, line breaks, capitalisation etc - give some indication of the way in which it is to be conveyed to an audience, then I concur.

r smiling smiley


Re: on the page
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: March 28, 2005 10:28PM

"I am returning this otherwise good typing paper to you because someone has printed gibberish all over it and put your name at the top"

---Anonymous, but I'll claim it as my own.



Les


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 28, 2005 10:35PM

great quote Les


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 28, 2005 10:36PM

He does. He even pushes it to the point of the connection between oral poetry and dance and other muscular movements. He is great for provoking ideas about poetry and other things.

Peter


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 28, 2005 10:41PM

You should see how he punctuates a caesura: with a comma followed by a double space!


Re: on the page
Posted by: Linda (---.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk)
Date: March 29, 2005 06:33AM

"It (a poem) needs print in order to exist at all, and it is nomore expected that a poet, as such, will know how to sing or even to declaim than it is expected that an architect will know how to plaster a ceiling."

George Orwell, Poetry and the Microphone, 1943.


Re: on the page
Posted by: rikki (---.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: March 29, 2005 05:13PM

Aha! I'd like to see that!!


"The creative person is more primitive, more cultivated, more destructive, a lot madder and a lot saner than the average person." Frank Barron.

r smiling smiley


Re: on the page
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: March 29, 2005 05:52PM

William Tell the Bowler

There is evidence that William Tell and his family were avid bowlers, but unfortunately all the league records were destroyed in a fire.
Thus we'll sadly never know for whom the Tells bowled.


Les


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 29, 2005 07:09PM

Les,

Is there some occult reason for this joke, or did I miss its connection to typography and oral poetry?


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 30, 2005 01:03AM

I find this point by Orwell fascinating, yet I hesitate to depend on it in thinking about poetry, since I have never seen his poems, and I have an inclination to trust what poets say about the process over what novelists or linguistics or mathematicians do, even though they are entitled to their opinions. I guess it is the old habit of restricting what we take as expert opinion to those in the feild. After all, no one would take my opinion of the best way to write a novel for much, since I am not known for writing novels. Does this make any sense to you, Linda?

Peter


Re: on the page
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: March 30, 2005 01:25AM

Peter, let's leave it to the rest of the forum, are spoonerisms appropriate to a thread whose first post is this:

"all 'typographical' features are notations for the performance of the reading"


Les


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 30, 2005 02:33AM

I just did not know what was going on, since there is a tendency to try to keep threads 'on topic' with the use of friv cons and the like.

Peter

I don't even think of 'spoonerisms' anyway. Not my kind of humor.

Peter


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 30, 2005 02:38AM

I have a longstanding interest in how the poem looks on the page, having cut some of my poetic teetn on cummings' poems by reading all of them in sequence once. I also am of the habit of reading poems, especially long poems, out loud, for the ear. Olson and Creeley have a lot to say about this in their critical writings, but I am just getting around to Duncan, who is a great hero out this way among the last three generations of serious poets and public perfomers.

Peter


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 30, 2005 02:41AM

It is not my habit to leave thinking to someone else.


Re: on the page
Posted by: Linda (---.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk)
Date: March 30, 2005 12:05PM

Orwell's essay was actually on the subject of broadcasting. He had been involved in a series of literary programmes broadcast to India which included a "good deal of verse by contemporary English writers" and was drawing out the difference between reading a piece of writing to oneself, speaking to a live gathering of people whose differing resonses must be handled at the time and broadcasting to individuals who will either switch off or pay proper attention.

He thought that one value of a poet reading his own work was not the effect on the listener, but the effect on the poet, most of whom had not considered their readers as real people before this.


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 30, 2005 12:19PM

Thanks Linda,

I think Orwell is almost always interesting. I use to teach "Politics and the English Language" to my Freshman compostion classes. He engages his audience partly becasue he is provocative, I think. Thanks again for the reference.


Re: on the page
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 30, 2005 10:40PM

I find him a bit Orwellian


Re: on the page
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: March 30, 2005 11:07PM

most of whom had not considered their readers as real people before this.



And who might they have been writing for, robots?



Les


Re: on the page
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 31, 2005 12:44AM

We can never be REALLY sure

I thought D Madison was a bot for a time


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 31, 2005 08:10AM

I feel like a robot sometimes.


Re: on the page
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: March 31, 2005 10:45AM

I am functioning within normal parameters

good thing I have wide parameters


Re: on the page
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: March 31, 2005 10:48AM

I am functioning within paranormal meters

good thing I have a wide pair of meters




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