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riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 11, 2005 04:41PM

hot summer night companions

a bird and the other
flutter and walk
together

who is the other?



Post Edited (02-14-05 14:03)


Re: riddles
Posted by: Linda (---.l1.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk)
Date: February 11, 2005 06:35PM

Its shadow?


Re: riddles
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: February 11, 2005 10:29PM

John Travolta.


Les


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 01:00AM

My heart


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 12:22PM

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is Emily Dickinson's poem, but there is no indication in that one that it takes place on a hot summer night. Eliot's Preludes occurs to me, but again does not seem right. One infers it is unlikely that a butterfly would flutter by when it is dark, right.

When I make a riddle personally, I try to ensure there is only a single possible solution, although I realize that freewheeling was the norm for most of those in the past. I suspect that any number of answers could be fitted to the definition as given above, but we are asked to guess only the one that the author has in mind. That is, like an SAT test, there is a 'best' answer.

So, other answers that pop into the mind's eye are: moonlight, the wind, a moth, God, (pick a) noise, goose bumps, and raindrops. Still, we are asked 'who' is the other, not 'what', so all of those become less likely. Frost's Aquainted with the Night? Probably not.

Could a firefly be a 'who'? Dunno, but I will take a wild stab with that solution.


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 02:43PM

Hugh,

I construction this, I tried to enter one mind and leave another that I was in at the time. I'd been thinking od Brumbough's failed 'solution' to the Voynich Document with the kryptogapher's mind-set: find one, unambigously derived solution at every stage of unscrabbling the riddle of the MS. Then I visited Caemon, and was reminded of beastieries(?)* and animal riddles. These seemed fairly closed, but some were open riddles, rather than codes. I decided on a riddle with many answers so the readers could each find the one she or he was suited to. . . sort of like interpreting dreams. I actually had the answer first and made the riddle from it. But, unlike the Caterpillar, I do have one of the answers in mind.

Peter

*An unusual word: a medieval book (usually illustrated) with allegorical and amusing descriptions of real and fabled animals .


Re: riddles
Posted by: joseph r. torelli (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 02:44PM

I like Hugh's deductive reasoning approach, but I can't envision a firefly, moth, or butterfly walking as L2 states. Of course, there's always poetic license and figurative speech, and the like. And while Linda's guess of shadow has a lot of merit, I'm going with God....hopefully, God is going with me, as well.

JoeT


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 03:00PM

The riddle comes from an image you might be able to smell and hear, as I did.

Peter


Re: riddles
Posted by: joseph r. torelli (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 03:23PM

I got....sizzling bacon!

JoeT


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 03:40PM

closer


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 04:26PM

he who smelt it dealt it


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 04:32PM

in the sweltering heat
down by the feet
where the tale just swung.



Post Edited (02-12-05 15:33)


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 12, 2005 04:33PM

in the sweet summer's wet
when the sun's not yet set
and the moonsong is not sung


i



Post Edited (02-12-05 15:44)


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (12.73.175.---)
Date: February 12, 2005 08:16PM

I remember pouring over the Voynich Manuscript a while back, looking for a solution, but it was too tough for me.

[www.dcc.unicamp.br] />
[www.geocities.com]


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 13, 2005 11:24PM

Hugh, I found the MS daunting and the reproductions I down loaded years later unreadable, but they are at least intriguing. I tried to use Brumboughs "solution' of small samples and got nowhere.

Peter


Re: riddle #1 the sparrow and the ox
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-01rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: February 14, 2005 11:59AM

Well, there are many who claim the VM is a hoax, but to me it seems much too elaborate for that to be true.

I see the title of this thread has been changed, so I infer that 'ox' must be the solution, although I cannot see why that would be true.

Since the original thread was 'riddles', I guess I can stay on topic by posting one of mine:

To my first, one can never say no,
Though my second's a pain or a woe;
My all is a ride
That ladies abide;
I'm curtailed by detective Poirot.

What am I?


Re: riddle #1 the sparrow and the ox
Posted by: Pam Adams (---.bus.csupomona.edu)
Date: February 14, 2005 01:26PM

It's either a raven or a writing desk.

pam


Re: riddle #1 the sparrow and the ox
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 14, 2005 03:03PM

Thamks for reminding me, Hugh, of my intent regarding getting people to post their own riddles. I'm changin the title back.

Sparraow ride an Ox fluttering about his eat, snacking recting, hence the companions along the summer night road. I know it's not an exclusive answer to the quetion, but it is grounded in lived experience, so I guess it counts. I was enjoying the other alternatives going along the way. Your riddle, and those of others, is most welcome.

Peter


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (12.73.175.---)
Date: February 14, 2005 06:44PM

Thakns. Stritcly speaking, mine is a charade insterad of a riddle, tho.


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 14, 2005 08:37PM

why not?


Re: riddles
Posted by: Veronika (---.213.143.81.63.dc.telemach.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 06:54AM

I am not very good at solving riddles :-) So here's another riddle. Actually it is the only one I've ever come up with. I was five or six years at the time. It sounds much better in the original, but a rough translation would go something like this:

The army white from castle fair
goes down the slope into a square.

Regards,
Veronika


Re: riddles
Posted by: jenny22moon (---.spidernet.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 10:13AM

This may be helpful:

If this one follows the same line of reasoning as the Emma charade you are looking for a composite word made of two parts (e.g. guesthouse, gentleman etc). The first to which no one can say no is a hint for the first part. For example, and assuming I'm right, if the word was gentleman the answer to this first hint would be "gentle" and the answer to the second hint would be "man".


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh16rt-04rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 12:23PM

I seem to be losing the thread here, sorry. The Emma charade stuff eludes me completely. Yes, a charade is when a word is separated into its composite parts, and clues/hints are given relating to the separate syllables. Usually, one sees them as, 1st syllable, 2nd syllable (any more syllables) and whole word. For example:

My first is Latin for a book,
Which boys, at least, but know quite well;
My second's two thirds of, to knot,
And this you'll also quickly tell.
My whole's the proudest boast of those
Who dwell within this favoured land;
'Tis England's boon to every slave
Whose foot has pressed our sea-girt strand.

So that, 'liber' is Latin for a book; but why 'ty' would be two-thirds of a word meaning 'to knot' is less clear. One assumes it is ok to make the sound of the syllable instead of its spelling, making 'liberty' the solution, although it is not pronounced liberteye. Oh, well, as I say, riddles were freewheeling in the old days. This particular one is from 1851, in the Book of Riddles, Enigmas and Charades.

A riddle is (usually) distinguished by its use of metaphor in the clue(s).

"Who becomes pregnant without conceiving?
Who becomes fat without eating?"

The metaphorical solution being 'clouds'.

The legendary Homer's riddle:

"What we caught we threw away; what we didn't catch we kept."

The answer was supposed to be 'lice'. I guess there is a metaphor in there somewhere, but this seems more of a conundrum to me. A conundrum being a riddle with a pun in it, and an enigma is more of just a puzzle. These are merely my thoughts on the matter, and should, as always, be taken with a large quantity of salt.


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 12:36PM

What do I have in my pocket?


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 01:00PM

Hugh, Not to embarass you, but I find you such wonderous mine of information, have since I first came to the forum. I think you should take some pride in you providing info to so many of us for so long.

Peter


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-04rh16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 02:16PM

Aw, shucks.

What do I have in my pocket?

A condrum?


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 02:39PM

Hah ! It was a trick question ! I'm not wearing any pants !


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 02:46PM

I'm not just some bum
with a con und a drum
this area ain't my proclivity

So if Ramses so great
how come Troi she is late
plus it cuts down on the sensitivity


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 04:53PM

I only use condi-mints myself.


Re: riddles
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: February 15, 2005 04:59PM

I seem to be losing the thread here,

Hugh, I think it's Johnny who should be worrying about loose threads.


Peter, my favorite condiment is horse-radish. Because it's neither horse, nor radish.

Les


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 04:59PM

what about condi rice?


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 05:00PM

Just the rashes fit for a horse, huh?


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 05:01PM

She is a riddle.


Re: riddles
Posted by: A-Leenos (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 05:04PM

Volo comparare nonnulla tegumembra


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 15, 2005 08:13PM

cedo maiori


Re: riddles
Posted by: jenny22moon (---.cytanet.com.cy)
Date: February 16, 2005 04:00PM

Ah, nor should anyone be familiar with it, without more clarification from me. I meant the charade in Jane Austen's Emma. In which the hints aimed for words. But now I see that the maker's choice of hints enlarges; they can aim for syllables also. Well, that should make any aspirant solvers happy

Jenny


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: February 17, 2005 09:53AM

birds of a flutter
stutter in butter


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: February 17, 2005 12:18PM

Jane Austen's Emma ...

Oh, I geddit now, thanks:

[www.pemberley.com]


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-01rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: February 19, 2005 12:26PM

Another interesting 'manuscript' for poetry fans is the Northumberland, where apparent proof that Francis Bacon wrote Shakespeare's plays is found.

[home.att.net] />
The word "honorificabiletudine" is found therein, reminiscent of the "honorificabilitudinitatibus" in Love's Labour's Lost.

[tinyurl.com] />
I have seen pictures of the original, which is virtually illegible, but here is a 'cleaned up' copy that purports to accurately reflect it:

[www.sirbacon.org] />
Almost convincing, until one discovers that the word was also used by Dante, and appeared in a Latin dictionary "Magnae Derivationes" by Uguccione.

[www.gutenberg.org] />
So, the word could have been familiar to both Will and Frank. Oh, well, an interesting adventure in any case.


Re: riddles
Posted by: paul turpin (---.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr)
Date: February 21, 2005 11:09AM

I think the answer to your riddle is children sliding down a helter-skelter. Anyway it's very pretty.


Re: riddles
Posted by: paul turpin (---.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr)
Date: February 21, 2005 11:16AM

Or a slide. Apparently Wittgenstein denied the possibility of riddling claiming that "The riddle does not exist. If a question can be framed at all, it is also possible to answer it." So there we are.


Re: riddles
Posted by: Veronika (---.213.143.81.63.dc.telemach.net)
Date: February 21, 2005 03:55PM

The answer is supposed to be chess. But I guess the riddle itself is not very clear :-)

As for Wittgenstein ...

I think Alice in the Wonderland is filled with questions that can and at the same time can't be answered. For example the riddle about a writing desk and a raven. Riddles use metaphorical language and that moves them away from pure logic. Or at least they embody a "different kind of logic." More similar to dream logic and symbols.

The best part I like about riddles is how they are made. Not just for the mind, but also for the ear.

Regards, V.


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 21, 2005 07:23PM

Queen to Queen's Level Three


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: February 21, 2005 08:32PM

PxQ ch


Re: riddles
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 25, 2005 03:22PM

flings board across room
scattering pieces askew


Re: riddles
Posted by: marian2 (---.range81-152.btcentralplus.com)
Date: February 26, 2005 06:08AM

That's my best end game, too Johnny!


Re: riddles
Posted by: fallwer (---.lib.asu.edu)
Date: March 02, 2005 08:10PM

Gone left free from them ready to travel going to see you going to rule the world taking care of buisness!


Re: riddles
Posted by: Cerberus (---.cotse.net)
Date: March 17, 2005 12:09PM

To my first, one can never say no,
Though my second's a pain or a woe;
My all is a ride
That ladies abide;
I'm curtailed by detective Poirot.

What am I?


captain hastings?


Re: riddles
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh16rt-04rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.ne)
Date: March 17, 2005 01:28PM

No, sorry. The solution was mustache (MUST + ACHE). Yeah, I know, the right-ponders spell it moustache, if that is where you are from, but life is hard.

And, speaking of riddles, I noticed a couple of mine posted on this web site:

[www.creativepuzzels.nl] />
They are numbers 20 & 21, Astute & Elsinore. Weird that they would give the names of the folks who solved them, but omit the authors. Maybe I should shoot them off an e-mail and yell at them, but it is nice to have given birth to a couple of verses that folks found nice enough to pass around.

Here are the other puzzles there, for those who may be interested:

[www.creativepuzzels.nl]


Re: riddles
Posted by: Jean-Paul (209.226.48.---)
Date: March 17, 2005 01:29PM

Do you live in a Condi-minium?



Post Edited (03-17-05 12:31)

"I "Love Summer more than I hate Winter"


Re: riddles
Posted by: Jean-Paul (209.226.48.---)
Date: March 17, 2005 01:36PM

On a hot summer night, the bugs come out in droves (mostly our killer mosquitos)
There are mostly two things that feast on them: birds and bats
They also both flutter and walk
So.......my answer is a bat

?????????

"I "Love Summer more than I hate Winter"


Re: riddles
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 17, 2005 02:49PM

Thanks, Hugh.




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