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riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 11:19AM

I need some clever people to help me with a translation, and of course I know there plenty around here...

The subject is compass variation. In short, I need a littly rhyme to say:
a) the symbol (the minus and plus sign) will be reversely applied from map to compass

(This means that the variation needs to be applied in reverse after reading a course or sounding from a nautical map, with other words, plus becomes minus and minus becomes plus.)

b) from compass to map the sign remains the same

So, when plotting a magnetic compass course on a map, the variation remains the same.

any suggestions? I might have others later. Unfortunately I don't get the option to quote my sources, but I will be very grateful anyway.


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-05rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 01:08PM

You lost me, Desi. Is this what you are talking about?:

[www.paddling.net] />
[tinyurl.com]


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 01:32PM

yes. Let's try again:

Compass variation (or declination) is the error in the compass caused by the Earth's magnetism. It is always named E or W according to which direction the card is deflected away from true north. (from: [www.navis.gr] />
In order to translate the true course (the one on the map) into the magnetic course (the one you can follow on the compass), you need to take the westerly variation as a negative, and the easterly variation as a positive.

If the variation is negative (on the compass it will be more to the left as in reality), you need to add it to the true course.

e.g. The true course (on the map) is 081.
The variation is 2 degrees west
So, you will need to follow 083 on the magnetic compass to go where you want to go to.

So, from map to compass, you need to change the negative into a positive for westerly variation, and a positive into a negative for easterly variation.

Is this clear at all?

In fact, this is the kind of riddle I am looking for. (Found it on the website you gave):

"CADET."
"To Compass ADd East Declination to Yield True."

Thank you. Any chance you can find one for the next one?

This means that, if you want to plot (put on a map) a course read from a compass, easterly variation will have to remain negative, and easterly positive.


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 01:45PM

wait, of course the riddle mentioned is for b. Easterly declination is positive, so needs to be deducted from the true course to get the right reading on a compass. So I need one for the first one. (and maybe a nicer one for the second).

If your head starts to spin, so does mine. And in order to translate it correctly I have to more than understand everything they say, and find the right lingo. It's a nice challenge.


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Just Jack (---.southg01.mi.comcast.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 02:48PM

Des-

I was hoping you were trying to work this into a nice, romantic poem.
But that would be just TOO easy because of the natural, obvious tie-ins.
When I was taking my ground school for a pilot's license years ago I had a hard time getting my head around this concept. Now that I'm older it's a lot easier. In nautical or aeronautical navigation I only go in that narrow band where inclination/declination are zero, and just read the compass as true. I don't get around much, but I've been everywhere between Hudson Bay and Buenos Aires that you can go (as long as it's in that straight line!).

Come to think of it, this does make a nice, romantic metaphor. I'll work on it.


Jack


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-05rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 02:56PM

Aha. Something like East increased or West is lessed?


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: lg (68.116.87.---)
Date: October 27, 2004 03:01PM

Let's start with a simple thing called a compass
which may, or may not be, cattywompass
If you're headed due north by the clock
you'll miss your true mark by a block
if you fail to note that the clock is a might slow:

So just add two ticks 'fore you go.

Les


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 03:23PM

"I only go in that narrow band where inclination/declination are zero"

LOL! Good idea!

And Hugh, yes, that's sort of what I'm looking for. I have to go offline now, but will come back tomorrow morning (european time). (2 hours minus GMT)

lg, what is cattywompass?

Desi


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: October 27, 2004 03:56PM

Desi, it's a variation of catawampus:

[www.infoplease.com] />

Les


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 27, 2004 07:50PM

Tough assignment all right. I'm not sure I could navigate an airplane or a ship with the information given, but here are some rhymes that may spark something of your own invention:

When viewing a map
There's always a gap
Between North on the page
And the one on your gauge.

A chart's North is True
But captain and crew
Know a compass points North
Where earth's magnet pulls forth.

To correct declination
Just use this summation:

From compass to map
We're adding the gap
From map back to compass
Subtracting is scrumptious


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 28, 2004 05:51AM

Well, all the information I have is a complete course on the subject, so I can't really put it all here (especially since I had to sign a confidentiality agreement :-)

Thank you Hugh!


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: October 28, 2004 07:41AM

Building on Hugh's excellent suggestion:

In a situation
Of Compass Variation,
When you're steering
Make sure your bearing
Is increased for East
Or lessed for West.

Desi, what do you mean by a 'riddle'. Do you want a puzzle that conceals the rule, or a memory aid? If an aid, do you want a rhyme, or an acronym? CADET isn't quite an acronym for the rule you stated beside it, but it's getting close. Is this a homework task for you, or is it for something you are teaching?

Les, thanks for that great word 'catawampus'. It reminds me of Lewis Carroll's 'Snark' and, in the context of this topic, these verses from the hunting thereof:

The Bellman himself they all praised to the skies -
Such a carriage, such ease and such grace!
Such solemnity, too! One could see he was wise,
The moment one looked in his face!

He had bought a large map representing the sea,
Without the least vestige of land:
And the crew were much pleased when they found it to be
A map they could all understand.

'What's the good of Mercator's North Poles and Equators,
Tropics, Zones, and Meridian Lines?"
So the Bellman would cry: and the crew would reply
"They are merely conventional signs!

"Other maps are such shapes, with their islands and capes!
But we've got our brave Captain to thank"
(So the crew would protest) "that he's bought us the best -
A perfect and absolute blank!"

This was charming, no doubt: but they shortly found out
That the Captain they trusted so well
Had only one notion for crossing the ocean,
And that was to tinkle his bell.

He was thoughtful and grave - but the orders he gave
Were enough to bewilder a crew.
When he cried "Steer to starboard, but keep her head larboard!"
What on earth was the helmsman to do?

Ian


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 28, 2004 07:56AM

It is for a translation I'm working on, which is a course on navigation.
Of course, literally translating the dutch rhymed riddle (a memory aid) will not really help the future english speaking students, so I am trying to find something better.

And of course, having a good excuse to look into emule so once in a while helps enormously :-)


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: October 29, 2004 12:50AM

Post the Dutch rhyme and I'll see what I can do


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 30, 2004 06:11AM

van kaart naar kompas wordt het teken omgekeerd toegepast
(koersverslechteren)

van kompas naar kaart is de fout zijn teken waard
(koersverbeteren).

Didn't know you spoke dutch?


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 30, 2004 11:37AM

With the internet, we all can (to a degree):

[ets.freetranslation.com] />
of card to compass becomes the sign turned around applied (koersverslechteren)

Of compass to card is the wrong its sign worth (koersverbeteren).

[www.systransoft.com] />
"of card to compass the sign is reversed applied" (koersverslechteren)

is "of compass to card wrong is sign worth" (koersverbeteren).

[babelfish.altavista.com] />
"of card to compass the sign is reversed applied" (koersverslechteren)

is "of compass to card wrong is sign worth" (koersverbeteren).


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: October 30, 2004 12:22PM

OK, so kaart is not cart, but map ala cartography?

babelfish is hilarious sometimes, it once translated the "parts counter" meaning the place where you pick up the parts, as "the pieces that you are against"

THis requires rethink


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: October 30, 2004 12:27PM

We know from USP that Johnny can write double Dutch.



Post Edited (10-30-04 11:34)


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: October 30, 2004 12:34PM

Somehow, and I can't explain it, vestiges of New Amsterdam still manage to hang on here in NY, even though the Dutch got the Boot in 1664.....we all call the front steps a "stoop", and I've only met one Dutch person in my life

Double Dutch is a jump-roping technique, in case anyone was curious

I think Hugh captures the original thusly:

From compass to map
We're adding the gap
From map back to compass
Subtracting is scrumptious



Post Edited (10-30-04 11:37)


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-04rh16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 30, 2004 01:23PM

Scrumptious is yucky with compass, but I didn't like any on the list below much better, all mean to be used with 'us', such as 'bump us'.

bump
chump
clump
dump
frump
grump
hump
jump
lump
mugwump
plump
pump
rump
slump
stump
thump
trump
ump

Alliteration with an 's' word is attractive, so maybe go negative and say "won't stump us"?


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: October 30, 2004 06:00PM

You wanted to rhyme Tony with Wolfman so I didn't think you had any scrumptious scruples !


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-05rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 31, 2004 11:30AM

Piffle and tosh.


Re: riddles to learn
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: October 31, 2004 01:42PM

I am very impressed! Thank you guys.

And yes, kaart is map. By the way, we would spell stoop as stoep. But this is pronounced in english as stoep.

And I have done some proofreading of a french english translation once, and either the translator had used babelfish, or he was the living proof that humans can in fact improve babelfish in the negative sense.

For example, hotesse de caisse was throughout the text (dealing with a new cash register system) translated with "hostess of the case" (instead of something like cash register operator). Not ONCE, the translator had translated caisse with register. It was hilarious!




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