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Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 18, 2003 08:11AM



Cognitive dissonance: hearts naively betrothed. Words given when not understood, yet the whole being was intensly focused on those words. A smile. The world's double standard: the words, hearts are not playtoys, yet the truth, hearts are playtoys.

"When you first meet a person, they don't ask you how your soul is."
Prof. Deer Cloud


Hmm, I am looking for some poems (or songs) around the theme of cognitve dissonance. Thoughts and improv welcome.

Nasha


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 18, 2003 08:26AM

Puppet On A String

Every time you look at me
I'm as helpless as can be
I become a puppet on a string
You can do 'most anything to me
All you do is touch my hand
And your wish is my command
I become a puppet on a string
You can do 'most anything to me
If you really love me
Darling please be kind
I offer you the truest love
That you will ever find
Take my heart and please be fair
Handle it with loving care
For I'm just a puppet on a string
You can do 'most anything to me
If you really love me
Darling please be kind
I offer you the truest love
That you will ever find
Take my heart and please be fair
Handle it with loving care
For I'm just a puppet on a string
You can do 'most anything to me
You can do 'most anything to me

Elis Presley



Post Edited (10-19-03 03:58)


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 18, 2003 12:47PM


Need definition clarification. I am getting things like, 'being opposed to the slaughter of deer, yet eating meat', and, 'buying an expensive automobile then finding out it is uncomfortable'.

[www.onelook.com] />
I don't see how those match your examples above, but maybe it's just me.

Joe Zeugma was feeling no pain,
Which his fortunes today would explain:
After doing his best
On his algebra test,
Scored an 'A', then some dope and with Jane.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 18, 2003 03:37PM

Clarification not neccesary...personal meditations "around" the theme of cognitve dissonance rather than "about" or a "strict definition" would be appreciated - liked your pome smiling smiley My examples are my interpretation I suppose.

Nasha


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: marian2 (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 19, 2003 08:54AM

I love your limerick, Hugh; the last line reminded me of some of the words to 'Madiera M'dear' by Flanders and Swann:

And he said as he hastened to put out the cat,
The wine, his cigar.....and the lamps:

[www.applink.net] />
PS Who is Joe Zeugma, and how do I say his name?


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.phoenix-01rh15rt-az.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 19, 2003 11:04AM


Right, more likely syllepsis than zeugma, and the same idea as madeira, m'dear. I pronounce it zoogma, although the German zoigma fits as well, Who is Joe?


Joe Zeugma's a bloke who would take
His time and some pills and a break
And Broadway by storm
And a crap where it's warm
And a bribe and the fifth and the cake.


Eight variations on a verb are the most I have been able to do so far.

Oh, the original point ... I'll get back.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-05rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 19, 2003 07:50PM


Clarification not neccesary

Ok, I'm gonna interpret it as doing something even when you know it is wrong, or not doing something you know is right, then.


A Poison Tree

I was angry with my friend:
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

And I water'd it in fears,
Night & morning with my tears;
And I sunned it with smiles,
And with soft deceitful wiles.

And it grew both day and night,
Till it bore an apple bright;
And my foe beheld it shine,
And he knew that it was mine,

And into my garden stole
When the night had veil'd the pole:
In the morning glad I see
My foe outstretch'd beneath the tree.

-- William Blake

-------------------------------------

The Man He Killed

"Had he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have sat us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin!

"But ranged as infantry,
And staring face to face,
I shot at him as he at me,
And killed him in his place.

"I shot him dead because--
Because he was my foe,
Just so: my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although

"He thought he'd 'list, perhaps,
Off-hand like--just as I--
Was out of work--had sold his traps--
No other reason why.

"Yes; quaint and curious war is!
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat if met where any bar is,
Or help to half-a-crown."

-- Thomas Hardy.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 20, 2003 06:01AM



A madeira thread:
[www.madeira.co.uk] />
Natasha


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 20, 2003 06:05AM

Hugh and Mariane2, thankyou for your quick responses - well! old leches and murder! this thread got dark quickly didn't it? I was thinking along the lines of say enjoying eating a beefburger and ignoring the health risks.


Beefburger health risk links:

[www.freep.com] /> [society.guardian.co.uk] />

Jennifer Jean is an Eating Machine

Jennifer Jean is an eating machine
who can eat more than anyone you've ever seen.
She'll eat double-beef burgers with ketchup and cheese,
with whole cartons of coleslaw, potatoes and peas.

She will lean back and practically open her head
and bolt boxes of baked goods like bagels and bread.
She can eat the most massive and mountainous meals;
thirty-seven bananas, and even the peels!

Or a twenty-scoop sundae on top of a pie,
and a strawberry shortcake stacked up to the sky.
She can wolf down a waffle and five or six more
then a dozen egg omelet and pancakes galore.

But there's one thing I think is completely unfair
and it has me confused and in utter despair:
Tell me why I'm so fat and yet she remains thin,
given Jennifer Jean's my identical twin!




Natasha


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Marian-NYC (---.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
Date: October 21, 2003 11:23AM


Another parallel line from Madeira, My Dear:


When he asked, "What in heaven--?"
She made no reply,
up her mind,
and a dash for the door.


I don't know if there's a name for that device.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Marian-NYC (---.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
Date: October 21, 2003 11:33AM


As a former Psychology Major I feel called to make a distinction between "cognitive dissonance" (a psych term) and contradiction, paradox, irony, or what have you (lit terms).


There are many ways of using internal contradiction for poetic effect.

"The closer we become, the greater the distance between us."
"... shines brightest in the dark..."
"... deafening silence..."
"... dual unity..."

COGNITIVE DISSONANCE, in strict terms, means two or more beliefs or perceptions that are held by one person even though they are mutually exclusive. The term is used when discussing the mental-emotional gymnastics that people will go through to avoid discarding one of the tenets of their faith.

A classic example:
(1) "I believe that love means doing what is best for the person you love."
(2) "I believe that my father loves me."
(3) Fact: "My father beats me."

There is "cognitive dissonance" between these. You can have two out of three, but not all three. But a person is cabable of adding a bogus belief: "Beatings are the best thing for me" -- rather than let go of #1 or #2 or #3. This resolves the "dissonance."

There certainly could be poetry that illustrates COGNITIVE DISSONANCE (I can't think of any at the moment) but that's not what this thread is about.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 21, 2003 12:52PM

Marian -NYC, thankyou, really interesting. I've asked a few peolple what they thought cognitive dissonance was and the general understanding seems to be "when a person chooses to forget".

If you find out what this post IS about, could you please let me know as I seem to have lost the plot with it a bit.smiling smiley


Natasha


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 21, 2003 01:27PM


I don't know if there's a name for that device.

From [humanities.byu.edu] />

Syllepsis: When a single word that governs or modifies two or more others must be understood differently with respect to each of those words. A combination of grammatical parallelism and semantic incongruity, often with a witty or comical effect. Not to be confused with zeugma.

Note: Originally, syllepsis named that grammatical incongruity resulting when a word governing two or more others could not agree with both or all of them; for example, when a singular verb serves as the predicate to two subjects, singular and plural ("His boat and his riches is sinking"). In the rhetorical sense, syllepsis has more to do with applying the same single word to the others it governs in distinct senses (e.g., literal and metaphorical); thus, "His boat and his dreams sank."

Examples

In the following example, "rend" governs both objects, but the first rending is figurative; the second, literal:
Rend your heart, and not your garments. Joel 2:13
You held your breath and the door for me
—Alanis Morissette

"Fix the problem, not the blame." —Dave Weinbaum
The verb "fix" governs both "problem" and "blame." In its first instance, "fix" means "solve," but this verb shifts its meaning when applied to its second object, where the understood "fix" = "assign."


Zeugma: A general term describing when one part of speech (most often the main verb, but sometimes a noun) governs two or more other parts of a sentence (often in a series).

Zeugma is sometimes used simply as a synonym for syllepsis, though that term is better understood as a more specific kind of zeugma: when there is disparity in the way that the parallel members relate to the governing word (as a vice or for comic effect).

Zeugma comprises several more specialized terms, all of which employ ellipsis and parallelism (among the governed members of the sentence). The zeugma figures are of two types: those in which the governing word is the main verb (in which case these are subsequently categorized according to the position of that governing verb), and those in which the governing word is another part of speech (usually the subject noun).


Don't even get me started on chiasmus vs antimetabole.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 21, 2003 01:45PM

The Bayeux Tapestry


...its an embroidery!


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Linda (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date: October 21, 2003 05:33PM

An antimetabole implies the existance of a metabole for it to cancel, is there?


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Marian-NYC (---.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
Date: October 21, 2003 06:55PM

Thanks, Hugh: Syllepsis is my favorite word for today.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: marian2 (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 22, 2003 04:20AM

Fascinating thread - I had forgotten the definition of cognitive dissonance and though I admired the tricks with words in Madiera m'dear, I'd no idea what to call them. As for chiasmus and antimetaboles - well Dictyostelium discoideum to you, Hugh!


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 22, 2003 01:35PM


Dictyostelium

Filed under six-syllable words for my next double dactyl on slime molds.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Pam Adams (134.71.192.---)
Date: October 22, 2003 05:58PM

my next double dactyl on slime molds.

Does this imply that there was a first one?

pam


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: October 22, 2003 06:49PM


Don't tell me you have already forgotten the classic,

Rumpety - Pumpety
Auden the Hedonist
Frolicking forests with
Those so inclined,

Thought he caught herpes but
Acrasiomycetes
Happily's all that the
Doctors could find.


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 23, 2003 03:03AM

Enjoying this, Hugh, keep it up!

Natasha


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: marian2 (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: October 23, 2003 04:26AM

Thank God Hugh is a poet and not a doctor.


Shameless Self Promotion
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: November 06, 2003 02:51PM


When Joe Zeugma was courting Ms Phipps,
He promised her holiday trips
Like cruises, in hopin'
When he called, she would open
The door, and her heart, and her lips.

Reinhold Aman. editor of Maledicta, has seen fit to include
some of Joe's sylleptic adventures in the upcoming Volume 13
of his 'talking dirty' journal. I have copies of all the other 12 issues,
and they were consistently fun to read. For those who may be
interested, see:

[www.sonic.net]


Re: Shameless Self Promotion
Posted by: Nasha (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: November 06, 2003 08:06PM

erm..WHAT!!!!?

Nasha


Re: Shameless Self Promotion
Posted by: Pam Adams (134.71.192.---)
Date: November 06, 2003 08:36PM

What, you couldn't work 'legs' into the last line?

pam


Re: Wild Emotions
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.phoenix-01rh15rt-az.dial-access.att.net)
Date: November 06, 2003 11:41PM


Legs!? Heck, I couldn't even work mouth.




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