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Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: sjs (---.orl.fdn.com)
Date: March 05, 2003 02:00PM

My mother gave me a beuatiful poems many years ago, but the author is not noted. The poem is titled...Comes The Dawn....

Most search engines have brought about reqest for the author, but not a title or word reference. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.sdsl.cais.net)
Date: March 05, 2003 03:31PM


Google sez it's Veronica Shoffstall.


after Hugh ... the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: ilza (200.162.243.---)
Date: March 05, 2003 05:01PM

Veronica A. Shoffstall
from 1971
the title is After a while

I got this email from Veronica, years ago,
who was kind enough to answer me,
as I wanted to know whether the title was 'Comes dawn'-
as quote often it is quoted as such :

Hi Ilza,

I never titled it "Comes the Dawn" -
- that was something it picked up along the way.
I never WOULD have given it such a pretentious, flatulent title.
In fact, I never titled it at all,
but because I had to for registration purposes
( and also to combat all the bogus titles it has been given by others:
"Comes the Dawn", "Endurance", I can't even remember them all),
I call it "After a While".

But titles are not copyrighted,
so I can't really prevent people from calling it whatever they like,
and since it was published in the Ann Landers column as
"Comes the Dawn",
it's hard to get people to stop calling it that.

Ronnie


Re: after Hugh ... the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.sdsl.cais.net)
Date: March 05, 2003 08:25PM


Zounds! Truth incarnate. I infer Ronnie will forgive the sharing of the e-mail. Thanks, ilza!


Re: after Hugh ... the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: ilza (200.162.243.---)
Date: March 06, 2003 12:39PM

sorry about the typo ... quite often ... quite often ... quite often ...


Re: after Hugh ... the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: mary debrusk (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: August 18, 2004 03:34PM

Hello,
I would like to read the Poem "After a While" or "Comes the Dawn" by Vernica or Hugh at my sons funeral as a reading. I would like to be able to state the Author. If if the poem begins
"Afer a while you learn the subtle difference
Between holding a hand and chaining a soul,
And you learn that love doesn't mean leaning
And company doesn't mean security......."

Could you please let me know the author if you do know.
Thanks in advance,
Mary


Re: after Hugh ... the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: mary debrusk (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: August 18, 2004 03:43PM

Hello Again,
After searching a few more web sites I have come to know that the author is Veronica A. Shoffstall.
Thanks again,
Mary


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.trlck.ca.charter.com)
Date: August 18, 2004 03:45PM

Mary, go to the bottom of your post and click "flat view". Read Ilza's post, there you will find that the title of the poem is After a While by Veronica A. Shoffstall.

Les


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: August 18, 2004 09:09PM

Can you post the poem?


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.trlck.ca.charter.com)
Date: August 18, 2004 10:23PM

For once and for all:

"After a While"

After a while you learn
the subtle difference between
holding a hand and chaining a soul
and you learn
that love doesn't mean leaning
and company doesn't always mean security.
And you begin to learn
that kisses aren't contracts
and presents aren't promises
and you begin to accept your defeats
with your head up and your eyes ahead
with the grace of woman, not the grief of a child
and you learn
to build all your roads on today
because tomorrow's ground is
too uncertain for plans
and futures have a way of falling down
in mid-flight.
After a while you learn
that even sunshine burns
if you get too much
so you plant your own garden
and decorate your own soul
instead of waiting for someone
to bring you flowers.
And you learn that you really can endure
you really are strong
you really do have worth
and you learn
and you learn
with every goodbye, you learn...

© 1971 Veronica A. Shoffstall


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: August 19, 2004 07:25PM

Thanks, Les.

Not surprising that Veronica was so scathing about whoever titled this 'Comes the Dawn'!


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.trlck.ca.charter.com)
Date: August 19, 2004 11:01PM

But titles are not copyrighted,
so I can't really prevent people from calling it whatever they like,
and since it was published in the Ann Landers column as
"Comes the Dawn",
it's hard to get people to stop calling it that.

Ian, I believe this is an object lesson for those among us who feel "untitled" is an appropriate name for a poem.


Les


Re: after Hugh ... the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Holly (12.165.197.---)
Date: September 07, 2004 01:29PM

Hello there

I have this poem on my web site (doghause.com) and I got an email from some one who claims that they wrote it, NOT Veronica. Does anyone have Veronica's contact information so I can confirm and try to get to the bottom of this? Thanks so much.

Holly
doghausemail@yahoo.com


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 07, 2004 01:52PM

Here you go Holly, Veronica's e-mail address may be found at the following website:

[www.storybin.com] />
The link to Mirrors and other Insults, in which this poem is included, is here:

[web.archive.org] />

Les



Post Edited (09-07-04 13:25)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Judith Evans (---.154.1.189.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)
Date: September 09, 2004 07:48PM

ACTUALLY.... if you Google "Comes the Dawn" you get many listing of anonymous, some with names and the most prominent name will be Veronica Shofftall. It will also say that she copyrighted it in 1971. However, she claims “it was first published in my college yearbook 1972, a book called The Ivy, from Mohawk Valley Community College in Utica, NY.” She later officially copyrighted it.

The version of the poem to which she may, or may not, have legal copyright, is not the original version. And it was CALLED "Comes the Dawn" because the last line was, before she edited it, ".... with every good-bye comes the dawn."

The poem actually went like this:

Comes The Dawn

After a while, you learn the subtle difference
between holding a hand and chaining a soul.
And you learn that loving doesn’t mean leaning
and company isn’t security.
(Kisses aren’t contracts and presents aren’t promises.)

After a while you begin to accept your defeats
with your head up and your eyes open,
with the grace of a woman, not the grief of a child.
And you learn to build your roads on today
because tomorrow’s ground is too uncertain
and the inevitable has a way of crumbling in mid-flight.

After a while you learn that even sunshine burns
if you stand too long in one place.

So, you plant your own garden and decorate your own soul
instead of waiting for someone else to bring you flowers.
And you learn you really can endure,
that you really do have worth.
You learn that with every good-bye comes the dawn.

Hence, the title. Veronica Shofftall may have copyrighted her rendition of this poem, but she didn't copyright the original version. The original has been out in the public domain for some 30 years. It CAN'T be copy righted now. It's public and has been long before the internet became a common, household entity. I know. I wrote it and made the mistake or sharing it with a large group of people, well over 30, because I made 30 copies of it and ran out long before people stopped asking me for it.

So, no matter how much her name is on her version, which belongs to her, this is the original.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: September 09, 2004 09:12PM

Judith, are you saying that you wrote the poem you just posted, and published it (i.e. shared it around publicly) in about 1974, and that it preceded Veronica's version? I'm not disputing you, as I have no knowledge of the facts, but obviously there are a few discrepancies floating around!

One point someone might be able to clarify is the distinction (if any) in the USA between acquiring copyright, and registering copyright. I may well be mistaken, but I thought authorship, without registration, was all that was needed to acquire copyright, and that registration was only for the purpose of placing the copyright ownership on public record in order to avoid disputes, and possibly to enable the ownership period to be extended. Maybe the law on that has changed since the 1970s.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 09, 2004 09:53PM

Judith, you pose an intriguing question. If you are the author of this, what else have you written and where might we find copies of your copyrighted work?


Les



Post Edited (09-09-04 20:59)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Judith Evans (---.154.5.235.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)
Date: September 10, 2004 12:25AM

Well, let me see, I have work in The Advocate (Volume 12), Industrial Digest (Although that isn't a poem), on a few E-zines, one of my published poems is "I Would Be Loving You Still" (e-zine, but I don't know if it's searchable - a poem about an actor I used to have a crush on :^D- embarrassing, true, but... there ya go!).

The rest I would have to dig out of a box in the attic to tell you exactly where to find them.

Like I said, this poem got away from me when I was quite young. If it had remained as "Author Unknown" or "anonymous" I probably wouldn't have bothered to say anything. But you can tell by the relationship between the TITLE (Comes the Dawn, by which it is so commonly known) vs. Ms. Shofftall's version of the poem that something is fishy. She says she has no idea where that crazy title would come from? How about because it was part of the last line until she edited it out.

The fact is, several people claim it. Mostly it is either attributed to her or to "anonymous/author unknown". I'd be willing to say that this is the most widely plagiarized poem in the world! I didn't mind when it was anonymous or author unknown. It was like my secret gift to the world. And if she would simply admit that she edited a poem she found (which she actually did in the quote in my prior post) so that it was more to her liking and copyrighted her version I'd have no problem with it at all. But there is a difference between tweaking someone else's work and claiming it as your own and being the generative source of the spark.

While I have continued to write and always will, I haven't submitted anything to anyone in a long time. Style is unmistakable. If you like I can put some of my other published works in here and you can compare.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Judith Evans (---.154.5.235.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)
Date: September 10, 2004 12:46AM

Oh! It is searchable... and silly. But I was feeling nostalgic that day. What can I say?


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 10, 2004 12:54AM

Judith, I read "I will be loving you still" on the fanzine website. It only convinces me more that the poem in question is not your work.

Les


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-05rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: September 10, 2004 11:43AM

[asjcollection.com] />
It would probably be gauche of me to post my rendition of a similar verse, I Will Be Loving Your Still, so I shall forbear.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Judith Evans (---.154.1.203.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)
Date: September 10, 2004 11:39PM

What ever, Les. You apparently have an emotional investment of some sort. As I said, that particular poem is not representative of my best work. I think I called it "embarrassing". You just asked me what else I could point to as published.

I volunteered to post a couple more published items (some that aren't embarrassing), but given your attitude that may be a waste of time. At this point, I don't think it is possible for you to be objective. Of course, I am new here and it may be that objectivity is not inherent in this site at all and that critical analysis is not something anyone should expect here.

But the FACT is that the person who claims "Comes the Dawn" most often (of the several who do claim it) did NOT write that poem, although she did edit it and copyrighted her edited version several years later.

I, on the other hand, never copyrighted it at all. As I said, it got out in the public sector before I even understood the implications of copyright laws. And the FACT is, that it is so well distributed that it would be very difficult for anyone to PROVE authorship. I never disputed her copyright of her own version of that poem. I simply dispute that she was the original generative spark... because I know she wasn't.

And your attitude is very interesting.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: marian2 (---.range81-152.btcentralplus.com)
Date: September 11, 2004 04:16AM

Les isn't the only person who reads this site, nor does he necessarily represent the views of all its contributors. I very much enjoy both the Shofftall and the Evans versons of this poem and what Judith says would explain why the Shofftall title seems unrelated to the content of the poem, which set me wondering when I first came across it several years ago.

As someone who has spent a good deal of time recently checking historical 'facts' for a project, only to discover that many don't even meet ' 'balance of probabilities' criteria let alone approach beyond reasonable doubt, I have ample evidence of the fallibility of benevolent human memory, let alone that of people with a vested interest in a given viewpoint - and I'm not casting stones at any individual - I'm as guilty as the rest. (as Marian NYC could testify!)

What we end up with is two versions of an interesting idea and a dispute as to whose idea it originally was, which we outsiders are unlikely to be able to resolve. I am confused as to whether the original poem published in the yearbook was accredited to Veronica or Judith - from my reading of the above Veronica didn't actually say she wrote it, but we have no access to the yearbook to find out. I suggest we all just enjoy them for their differences and similarities., just as we enjoy all Anon's creative output in its many versions.

And Judith, if you would be kind enough to post some work which you don't find embarrassing (I've got a drawerful of my efforts waiting for bonfire night) - I would like to read them.

Peace be with you.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 11, 2004 05:03AM

Judith, I have no vested interest in any particular point of view. I would merely like to believe that one person was responsible for the poem and not two. That may, or may not, be the case.

The disturbing part of the matter for me is that whoever wrote the poem didn't care enough about it to copyright it in the first place. It really is a beautiful piece of work.

Les



Post Edited (09-11-04 04:11)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-04rh16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: September 11, 2004 03:50PM

To be content that a poem one has midwifed manages to survive on its own is certainly a commendable attitude, Judith. Please stick around, and feel free to post some more stuff, if you have it. Les has shown himself here to be a reasonable person, and may yet be dissuaded.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: marian2 (---.range81-152.btcentralplus.com)
Date: September 14, 2004 06:38AM

Les, I'm not trying to be provocative, but to me 'merely lik(ing) to believe that one person was responsible for the poem and not two' is close to a vested interest. Preferring the version of anything you first heard and believing the person you first hear accredited with the work to be responsible for creating it, is a natural bias - we've all been surprised and disappointed to find songs and musicwe thought written by a performer have actually been produced in numerous versions before and since and a re even based on classical music tunes etc.

Equally, not copyrighting a poem doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about it, it could just be that you aren't particularly commercially minded. That's like saying that if you don't spend as much money on your children as your neighbour, you love them less than he loves his.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: ilza (---.162.245.50.user.ajato.com.br)
Date: September 14, 2004 02:22PM

I just would like to know how come not a single site, not one,
mentioned Judith's name before, in 9 years of the internet.

I am curious. Seriously.

And I stick to Veronica as the author.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 14, 2004 02:52PM

Marian,

I'm not trying to be provocative.

Then why bump this thread to the top by posting on it. Do YOU, or Judith, have a vested interest in discrediting Mrs. Shofftstall, or Ilza? I certainly don't.

I agree whole-heartedly with Ilza's latest statement.


Les



Post Edited (09-14-04 14:01)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-04rh16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: September 15, 2004 11:53AM

Then why bump this thread to the top ...

Only 3 days later. Probably just recently reading the new threads, I would think.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 15, 2004 12:45PM

Why bump the thread all the way to the top,
when you should answer nature's sweet softcall?
They're secretly scheming to sharpen the shaft
and giving the short shrift to Shofftstall


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: marian2 (---.range81-152.btcentralplus.com)
Date: September 15, 2004 02:19PM

Sorry to disappoint you Les, but Hugh is right, I was just reading the new thread. And if I'm only allowed to post opinions that agree with yours, this ceases to be a discussion foumr and becomes something quite different. I felt that your initial response to Judith was unfair and the latest one downright insulting. I don't know anything about either claimant to the poem's authorship and, as I said in the earlier post, would prefer to just enjoy both versions - and I am completely mistified as to how my post is supposed to discredit Ilza, for whom I have always had great respect.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 15, 2004 02:27PM

I'll wrestle you for it !


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 15, 2004 02:50PM

Marian, if you are not trying to discredit Ilza, I can accept that. Since she and I are saying essentially the same thing.

I would like to see a copy of the original newspaper article which posted the poem. What version did they post? Who did they credit as the author, etc? Any librarians out there who could find the original text for us? I do not find the date, or an article citing the exact poem on the internet, though there are several references made to "comes the dawn".

Les



Post Edited (09-15-04 14:15)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Pam Adams (---.bus.csupomona.edu)
Date: September 15, 2004 04:57PM

I don't know who wrote the work. However, I think that the fact that this discussion exists shows the problems of putting one's work out to the public.

IanB talked about the distinction between legal copyright in the US- if you wrote it, you own it; and the registration of copyright. Unfortunately, legal copyright is difficult to enforce, and impossible if you let works be used. (This is why Disney goes around suing daycare providers who paint Mickey Mouse on the wall of the room- they're enforcing their copyrights and trademarks.)

Unfortunately, without some proof of original publication, or something like a dated letter, this controversy may never be solved. And who would this proof be given to? The work is essentially in the public domain.

Currently several sites are acknowledging Judith's claim. None of them are authoritative sources. (And one site lists 'Copyright 1999- Kathleen Kennedy)

I do hope that USP users and others who write poetry are taking this to heart, and doing what they can to protect their copyrights. One suggestion that I've heard over the years is to mail a copy of your work to yourself as a certified letter, and do not open it. The postmark should be able to serve as proof.

pam


I am leaving for lunch ...
Posted by: ilza (---.ind.ajato.com.br)
Date: September 15, 2004 06:10PM

I too, Marian, have a great respect for you ( and you all)
- I didn't write the poem, so it is not a matter of discreting me, right ?
The way I see it, it is just a matter of opinion,
and I too feel comfortable enough to post my opinion,
hoping I am not insulting anyone.

I was given a book the other day, Chicken soup for whoever heart,
I don't even recall the name, pretty silly,
but I was reading it anyway, and it was so full of misquotes it drove me bananas

This problem of authorship is huge and stupid, and it surprises me
to find out so many mistakes, misquotes, wrong author, etc on the web ...

I have known this specific poem for over 20 years
- even before I owned a computer . . .
and as for me, it remains a poem by Mrs. Veronica unless someone can
convince me otherwise. . .
.........................
I posted a couple of days ago ( poetry quotation) that I once was looking for a poem by Helen Hunt Jackson ( using its title),
and I found myself inside a "Mad about you" site ...
as if actress Helen Hunt had written it . . .

Go figure !
.........................
in 1999 I was involved in a "whodunit quest"
started by Ivan Almeida and Benjamin Rossen, who were
trying to find the actual author of "If I could live my life again"
( Don Herold, of course ! I knew that since I was 12 years old ! ,
no kidding ... )

That same year I got in contact with his daughter, Doris,
to get some further information about her father
( her husband's family - as far as I can recall from that phone conversation - was from Sweden, where I was staying at that time,
and I remember talking to him a couple of times too,
he was such a gentleman )

[www.benjaminrossen.com] /> ...................

Why am I telling you this ?
To show you that I do try my best to investigate things,
authorship, etc, when that is not evident/clear to me

I will write, email, phone, play a drum, do whatever possible
to get the right credit to a poem.

I don't know about you, but I find it very very annoying to see
poems or quotes wrongly attributed to Nadines, unknown, or whoever ...

How come stuff like that still happens ???
How come that we are still discussing who wrote what ?

Sorry for this long post.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 15, 2004 08:44PM

Ilza, I think that one reason the internet is vulnerable to so many misquotes is that basically it is a lazy man's medium. I too run across misquotes all of the time. While researching this quote for instance, one of the websites credited Mother Theresa with the quotation.

We, the unwilling,
led by the unknowing,
are doing the impossible
for the ungrateful.
We have done so much,
for so long,
with so little,
we are now qualified
to do anything
with nothing.

--Anonymous

Even though I think it would be an appropriate thing for her to say, I honestly don't believe it should be credited to her unless it can be verified as you suggest.

As far as this poem goes, I definitely think copies of the original newspaper post would be useful for those of us who have not seen the poem with the title "comes the dawn".

Les


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 16, 2004 09:45AM

Mother Theresa? Oh my, that's funny. She's UNWILLING to work with lepers, for an Unknowing Ungrateful Pope ?

Actually the last 6 lines, though, might be something she would have said .


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-05rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: September 16, 2004 11:37AM

Who Would Pick More Daisies?

If I Had My Life Over I'd Pick More Daisies

If I had my life over, I would dare to make more mistakes.
I would relax.
I would limber up.
I would be sillier than I have been on this trip.
I would take fewer things seriously.
I would take more chances.
I would go more places.
I would climb more mountains, swim more rivers and watch more sunsets.
I would eat more ice cream and fewer beans.
I would have more real troubles and fewer imaginary ones.

You see, I have been one of those people who live prudently and prophylactically, hour after hour, day after day. Oh, I've had my moments... and if I had to do it again I would have more of them; one after another, instead of living so many years ahead of each day.

I have been one of those people who never go anywhere without aspirin, a thermometer, a gargle, a map, a raincoat and a parachute. If I had to do it over, I would travel lighter.

I would start barefoot earlier in the spring and stay that way later in the fall.
I would keep later hours.
I would have more lovers.
I would throw more parties.
I would ride more merry-go-rounds.
I’d pick more daisies.


Great story, ilza, thx.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Pam Adams (---.bus.csupomona.edu)
Date: September 16, 2004 01:06PM

Les,

I think it's not only the Internet, but the technology- copy and paste is a lot easier than typing something yourself. (remember carbon copies?)

pam


Don's
Posted by: ilza (---.user.ajato.com.br)
Date: September 16, 2004 02:09PM

it actually reads :

Of course, you can’t unfry an egg,
but there’s no law against thinking about it.

If I had my life to live over, I would try to make more mistakes.
I would relax.

I would be sillier than I have been this trip. I would be less hygienic.
I would go more places.
I would climb more mountains and swim more rivers.
I would eat more ice-cream and less spinach.
I would have more actual troubles and fewer imaginary troubles.

You see, I have been one of those fellows who live prudently,
hour after hour, day after day. Oh, I have had my moments.
But if I had it to do over again, I would have more of them - a lot more.
I never go anywhere without a thermometer, a map,
a raincoat and a parachute. If I had it to do over, I would travel lighter.

If I had my life to live over,
I would start going barefoot a little earlier in the spring
and stay that way a little later in the fall.
I would have more dogs. I would keep later hours.
I would have more sweethearts. I would fish more.
I would ride more merry-go-rounds. I would go to more circuses.

In a world in which practically everybody else seems to be consecrated
to the gravity of the situation, I would rise to glorify the levity of the situation.
For I agree with Will Durant, who said, "Gaiety is wiser than wisdom."

If I had my life to live over, I’d pick more daisies.

1953
..............
Don was a very famous humorist, cartoonist, writer,
but he also worked as an advertising consultant,
and for those who like advertising ( I do ... ) a great book is
his "Humor in advertising".


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 16, 2004 02:17PM

I said "carbon copies" the other day, and the younger people had NO IDEA what I was talking about.

They probably think the little "cc" on the bottom of letters means it's Spanish !


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Linda (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date: September 16, 2004 06:56PM

I blame word processors for the thickness of books these days. Would the last Harry Potter have been so thick if Rowling had to pay a typist by the page (even with all the cash she has now)? The first one written in cafes while her baby slept was a much more sensible length.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Desi (---.grecian.net)
Date: September 16, 2004 07:25PM

maybe she has a contract that says she gets paid per word sold....

Honestly, do you think she wrote the last one herself? I didn't like it half so much as the previous ones.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Pam Adams (134.71.192.---)
Date: September 16, 2004 08:49PM

How do you edit a book when the author is paid so well? I see the same problem with Stephen King's work. What ten-a-penny English major is going to say 'No, this is badly written, do it again.?'

pam


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 17, 2004 09:34AM

THIS PACKAGE IS SOLD BY WEIGHT, NOT BY VOLUME
(some settling of contents may have occured)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Nick Nace (65.215.112.---)
Date: September 17, 2004 12:41PM

We have gotten off the subject. The question at hand is who is the originator of "after awhile" (or whatever you want to call it). True, we may never be able to prove definitively who wrote the original. But I, for one, am fascinated that there are two individuals who claim it - one is clearly lying. There is no money at stake. Nor even reputation, really. So why would they do it? Do they know each other? I'm dying of curiosity!


Nick
Posted by: ilza (---.user.ajato.com.br)
Date: September 17, 2004 01:43PM

then I have another story for you :

I am a fan of Margaret Fishback, NOT Margaret Fishback Powers,
so now and then I get to the wrong site, so here is another mystery to be solved ( not that I care, actually, in this case) :

[www.wowzone.com]


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Pam Adams (---.bus.csupomona.edu)
Date: September 17, 2004 01:58PM

And there's the 'Guy in the Glass' issue too.

[www.theguyintheglass.com] />
pam


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 17, 2004 02:51PM

Nick, getting off the subject is what we do best here at e-mule. I believe this is one of those mysteries which will probably never be solved to everyone's satisfaction.

Les



Post Edited (09-17-04 14:40)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: September 18, 2004 01:16AM

I still feel that my "will wrestle for copyright" suggestion has validity


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Marian-NYC (---.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
Date: September 20, 2004 08:23PM

Nick Nace wrote: "there are two individuals who claim it - one is clearly lying"

NOT NECESSARILY. Mis-attributions abound, and most of them are innocent. Careless, sometimes, but innocent. "A poem FROM so-and-so" can get passed along as "a poem BY so-and-so." A poem quoted IN a book by Some Guy gets passed along as being BY Some Guy.

I know of a poem that was wrongly attributed to Appolinaire in more than one anthology, because the first line of the poem is "Appolinaire said:" and someone didn't realize that was PART OF the poem.

The internet spreads misinformation just as fast as it does good information.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: ilza (---.user.ajato.com.br)
Date: September 20, 2004 09:05PM

yes, the Guy in the glass !!!


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 21, 2004 11:58AM

I wrote the Book of Love
I put the bop in the bop-she bop
I shot the Sheriff
I wrote the Songs
I am the Walrus
and me and mrs jones
have a thing going on


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Pam Adams (---.bus.csupomona.edu)
Date: September 21, 2004 04:51PM

Actually, I think that the disinformation gets spread twice as fast as the real stuff.

pam


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Nick Nace (65.215.112.---)
Date: September 21, 2004 05:31PM

Marian,

Judith posted on this thread that the poem is hers. Ronnie Shoffstal copyrighted the poem and states that she is the author. The 2 "versions" of the poem are much too much alike for coincidence - one of the two persons is not telling the truth, and I just can't understand the motivation for this (and am very very curious as to who did, in fact, write this particular piece).


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 21, 2004 06:07PM

I'll have to ask my wife...Morgan Fairchild...and my other wife....Young Elizabeth Taylor

Tommy Flanaygan - Jon Lovitz


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: September 21, 2004 09:01PM

This isn't a case of Internet misattribution of authorship. We apparently have two self-proclaimed originators.

I can accept that they created their respective different versions of the poem, and to that extent they are not 'lying'. But who plagiarised whom? On that, one of them is surely being economical with the truth. There is too much text in common for this to be subconscious plagiarism. The author of whichever is the later version must have seen the earlier one. She may have been motivated by a worthy desire to improve on it. Maybe it was in an anonymous format, which precluded acknowledgment of the author and was a temptation not to acknowledge it at all.

I doubt whether it is possible to infer reliably which version is the later from examining the textual differences, or from judging which version is the better. My personal opinion is that the 'After a While' version is the more polished in wording and format, which suggests to me that it was achieved by polishing the other, but I accept that that's subjective.

Short of a confession, it seems that an answer to everyone's satisfaction will only come from uncontestable evidence, if such exists, about the dates when the versions were first written, e.g. dates of circulation, publication, copyrighting, or whatever.

I am still unclear as to whether in the US in the early 1970s some sort of registration was necessary for copyright to subsist, or whether it subsisted automatically in an author by virtue of authorship and such registration was only for evidentiary purposes to aid enforcement.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: September 21, 2004 09:42PM

I agree, Ian....I personally know of certain phrases or jokes that I' m confident that I came up with,,,,,the bumper sticker "nuke the whales" for example ..or the umpires kicking dirt into Billy Martin's grave.... and then seeing them in print or hearing them later.....now these can be attributed to "spontaneous combustion" a joke so obvious that several people would have NO trouble coming up with the same phrase or concept....but a poem is a totally different animal.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: September 22, 2004 11:24AM

IanB:

"Under the law in effect before 1978, copyright was secured either on the date a work was published or on the date of registration if the work was registered in unpublished form. In either case, the copyright endured for a first term of 28 years from the date it was secured. During the last (28th) year of the first term, the copyright was eligible for renewal. The current copyright law has extended the renewal term from 28 to 47 years for copyrights that were subsisting on January 1, 1978, making these works eligible for a total term of protection of 75 years."

The Encarta® 2000 New World Almanac © Copyright 1998, Helicon Publishing Ltd. All rights reserved.


from 1985 on . . . Veronica as author
Posted by: ilza (---.user.ajato.com.br)
Date: September 22, 2004 09:23PM

Gettysburg Times
March 30, 1985
"Dear Ann Landers" column

Syracuse Herald Journal
May 16, 1986
same column ...

( my newspaper archive ... )


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Johnny SansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 24, 2004 01:07PM

Came across a PHRASE today in print that I had thought of years ago, but never wrote anywhere, so clearly it wasn't "stolen"

"nostalgic for a time he never knew"

it's not always spontaneous combustion, sometimes the fire is smouldering !


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.phoenix-01rh15-16rt.az.dial-access.att.net)
Date: September 27, 2004 07:02PM

getting off the subject is what we do best here at e-mule ...

How many e-mulers does it take to change a light bulb?

1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been
changed

14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how he
light bulb could have been changed differently

7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs

7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light
bulbs

5 to flame the spell checkers

3 to correct spelling/grammar flames
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"
.... and another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid

2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is
"lamp"

15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light
bulb" is perfectly correct

19 to post that this group is not about light bulbs and to please take
this discussion to a lightbulb forum

11 to defend the posting to the group saying that we all use light
bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this group

36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to
buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this
technique and what brands are faulty

7 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs

4 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and then post the
corrected URL.

3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to
this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group

13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including
all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"

5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they
cannot handle the light bulb controversy

4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"

13 to say "do a Goggle search on light bulbs before posting questions
about light bulbs"

3 to tell a funny story about their beagle and a light bulb

1 group lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and
start it all over again.


(Purloined from another forum)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: peternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: September 27, 2004 08:01PM

Thaaat is great.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: glenda (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: September 27, 2004 08:37PM

And 1 to write an off color limerick about himself and a light bulb

87 to giggle at the limerick


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Just Jack (---.southg01.mi.comcast.net)
Date: September 27, 2004 09:30PM

Hugh-

You left out the e-tard (me) who doesn't know how to change a bulb, so just bitches about the dark.



Jack


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: lg (---.ca.charter.com)
Date: September 27, 2004 10:20PM

Hugh, I particularly like the light bulb scene, having changed a few in my life-time I can relate to these dimly lit observations:

A. 7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light
bulbs

B. 19 to post that this group is not about light bulbs and to please take
this discussion to a lightbulb forum

C. 7 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs


And I would add, due to this discussion that "tunnels" would be the next item to which we might address our time and effort, having exhausted said light bulbs and approached said end of tunnel.

Les



Post Edited (09-28-04 00:44)


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: peternsz (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: September 27, 2004 10:55PM

5 left handed jokesters complaining they've been discriminated against by that righthanded joke


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: September 28, 2004 11:10AM

Hugh, what you posted is by far THE funniest thing I have ever read on eMule EVER !

and in the spirit of fun:

[users.skynet.be] />


Post Edited (09-28-04 14:07)


Re: But where is the first part of the poem?
Posted by: Shannon Moore (---.iswest.net)
Date: November 05, 2004 06:43PM

Ms. Evans,

First, let me thank you for your beautiful words. I first saw them about 10 years ago on a poster in a catalog, and I immediately wrote them down and pinned them to my mirror. I still think of them whenever a relationship is breaking up.

My question is, I could swear there were several paragraphs before the "After a while..." part. I know I have it written down somewhere, but I just can't put my fingers on it right now.

Thanks.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Connie Solomon (---.mendocino.ca.us)
Date: January 14, 2005 09:09PM

I understand a young girl, Judith B. Evans, was the original author though she seldom gets credit for it. She did not copyright the poem.sjs wrote:

My mother gave me a beuatiful poems many years ago, but
the author is not noted. The poem is titled...Comes The
Dawn....

Most search engines have brought about reqest for the author,
but not a title or word reference. Any help would be much
appreciated. Thank you


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Becky121 (---.pittpa.adelphia.net)
Date: February 01, 2005 10:31AM

A long, long time ago a very young girl passed around copies of a poem she wrote. She had no knowledge of copyright laws and no idea that others sometimes take credit for things they don't really do. I had no idea this poem had ever gone anywhere let alone that it's authorship was discredited, disputed or it's original format changed. Judith Evans wrote the original poem. My mother was in the small group that got the copy. She made copies for us girls and it was read at her funeral. There is no money for Judith to be gained by claiming her original work now.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: springcherrytree (---.ph.ph.cox.net)
Date: February 02, 2005 04:10PM

If you give me a million dollars Ill tell you!Then I'll have a million dollars and you'll no.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: NataliaVargas (70.114.48.---)
Date: August 02, 2008 05:13PM

I am the author of this poem. My name is Natalia Vargas. All I want, is to state my truth.I am not crazy, not looking for fame, not looking for royalties or even "revenge." I state this now in 2008, because I never realized what an impact my poem would have - how it would touch the hearts of so many people.I wrote the poem in the middle of my first real heartbreak as a young woman. I was sitting in a chair, in my room, at my mother's house. I even remember the shadows of the day, and even the feel of my journal. I was in such pain, not believing how such simple words, "I don't love you" could cause so much hurt. I had begun to learn how to grieve an dying relationship for the first time. The words were real, true and heartfelt. In order to clear up some confusion, in the mid 90's, I was a 20 yr old young woman working for a small local newspaper in a rurual South Texas town called the Carrizo Springs Javelin. I've always written small stories, poems, etc . . since a young girl. I came across a generic advertisement for a poetry contest. I entered "Comes the Dawn," and sent it to a Florida address. This was in 1995. That was the last I ever heard of it. Young and naive, I never questioned the contest, its motives, or its ethics. Years later, in the age of the internet, I stumbled across my poem and was shocked to see how popular it had become. I was angered to see how many times it had been published in various books by other people claiming to have written it. And I was deeply hurt to see how so many claimed to be it's author. I did concact Veronica Shofstall, and even received several nasty emails from her. But I never pursued ownership, simply because I was content in knowing the truth. I was in the middle of a deeply stressful time in personal life and felt that ownership of the poem was a lost cause.I am very happy n the knowledge that my poem has helped and conforted so many people. That is the ultimate repayment for me. As for the controversy of authorship, I am stating that I am the original author. I wrote it in 1995 and unless me and the other "author" are on some sort of telepathic/cosmic connection, then there is no way the others could have possibly written it. I am extrmemely interested in seeing publishing of the poems from the early 70's as I was born in 1975. I am very interested because I still have the orginal poem in my possession, the orginal paper with all the scribblings and scratchings from editing.Whether or not this issue ever comes to a close, only God knows. All I know is, I am the author and I will always be.


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: IanAKB (210.84.50.---)
Date: August 02, 2008 11:02PM

Natalia,

If you still have your original, please post here what you claim to be the original words of it.

If anyone has incontrovertible evidence of the poem being published earlier than 1975, not necessarily in the same words but in sufficiently similar wording to preclude mere coincidence, do you accept that your creation of a version in 1975 must have been a case of unconscious copying? Or, as you say, some sort of telepathic/cosmic connection.

I have no vested interest in this controversy. Just literary curiosity.

Ian


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: JohnnyBoy (24.189.158.---)
Date: August 02, 2008 11:47PM

or proof that you wrestled her for it...that'd be good too


Re: Does anyone know the author of Comes The Dawn?
Posted by: Willy (125.160.134.---)
Date: May 09, 2011 05:04AM

I think the picture are taken with a right position and enough lighting. I don't think that's the best choice but we should try on it. It doesn't looks like in the night shot. free online advertising |jobs|hospital beds




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