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Jabberwocky
Posted by: Deep THinker (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 17, 2006 06:22PM

I was sitting back reading some poems and i love to look at poems and try to find the importance out of them and always try to think of three but i am having a little trouble with this one. you guys have any ideas


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: Elliot (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 17, 2006 07:18PM

DeepThinker

For us who do not have it at our fingertips, it helps to include the poem in you post, and it increases the chances of a discussion. Likely once can find on-line, but it is all about time, you know. I think it was also a short children's mythical monster genre story...

E.


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: October 17, 2006 08:06PM

Elliot, go here: [www.poemhunter.com] />

Les


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: Deep THinker (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 18, 2006 12:04AM

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
'Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!'
He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought--
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.
And as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
'And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


Sorry bout that


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: Elliot (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 18, 2006 02:42AM

Uh...lg would have me work...

DeepThinker, just as I thought Mythical Monster genre in obscure and invented language. To see if there is any subtle message, what you might like to do is make a list of all obscure words; see if they have and definitions, including those 'rarely used'; if you can not find some, check to see if any were taken from real words. You may find that LC was just having word fun, but on the other hand there may be some obscure meaning. Whatever the outcome that poemhunter site may post your analysis.

E.


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: October 18, 2006 03:12AM

Elliot, this is not an obscure poem, someone has already done the work for you: [myschoolonline.com] />
[www.waxdog.com] />
[www.math.luc.edu] />

Les

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2006 03:16AM by lg.


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: IanB (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 18, 2006 08:25AM

It has been discussed on Emule before too:

<[www.emule.com] />
<[www.emule.com];


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: Hugh Clary (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 18, 2006 12:04PM

try to find the importance out of them ...

I am not sure what is sought here, but Jabberwocky is one of those poems that should be familiar to all students of poetry. It can be found in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass, and has by now probably been translated into all the languages on earth. See also:

[en.wikipedia.org]


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: Pam Adams (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 18, 2006 01:01PM

Okay, now I'm wondering- how do you translate words like brillig and slithy?

pam


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: October 18, 2006 01:35PM

uh, schiewert and glappe as far as I can tell:

Koeterwaal
Nicolaas Matsier

Het schiewert en de glappe muik
Graffelt zich in de vijchten
Maar heel sloef was de rontelguik,
En strave woelen krijgten.

'Hoed voor de Koeterwaal je, zoon!
Zijn scherp gebit, zijn reuzenzwaai!
Vermijd het Dubdubdier, verschoon
De glurieuze Beffesnaai!'

Hij nam zijn worpel zwaard ter hand
En speurde bij de Plingplongboom,
Maar niemand bood hem tegenstand,
En zo stond hij in kroom.

In ruffig denken trof hem daar
De Koeterwaal, met vlammend oog,
Die zwingend door het groene vlaar
Hem worvelend bevloog.

Daar ging zijn zwaard: van hup en hop,
Van zig en zag en zoef!
Dood bleef het monster--en de kop
Keek wel een beetje droef.

'Is hij ontzield, de Koeterwaal?
Werp aan mijn borst u, lieve deugd!
O kostbaarlijke dag! Kaneel! Kanaal!'
Hij gnuivelde van vreugd.

Het schiewert en de glappe muik
Graffelt zich in de vijchten
Maar heel sloef was de rontelguik,
En strave woelen krijgten.


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: Elliot (192.168.128.---)
Date: October 19, 2006 02:05PM

lg, did I say it was an obscure poem? Na... I don't think I said that; said obsucre and invented language. And following one of your suggested links, I think I found the answer:

[www.victorianweb.org] />
It likely was opium. LC was outa-here... never never land.

And lg, it was not I who was looking for the "work", the exercise would be good for our young friend here, DeepThinker. I'd like him to become a great poetry analyst like you, Hugh, Pam & Steve.

;-)
E.


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: StephenFryer (Moderator)
Date: October 19, 2006 02:52PM

Steve?
Who dat?


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: HYPNOGOGPRESS (71.186.62.---)
Date: October 28, 2007 11:04PM

Surely opium played a role in the creative process....

But if you FEEL the poem rather than read it (which is proper opium-stupor logic) you can easily deduce the alluded-to meaning....it's a sense of generational acclimation & return....

Its a rebellion & then a return to the (extremely adaptable) machinery of the status quo....

It is how each "bold" new generation sets out to slay its adversarial beast....but in the end succumbs to the luxuries of the previous generation...with this understanding the JABBERWOCKY is the institutional powers that grow bloated & corrupt....

Then in the end our unnamed hero is greeted with open arms by the very institutions he ardently fought to fell...and he is even grateful to be accepted as a prodigal son when his battle is finished...

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

and eventually he ends up on the board of trustees....and everything returns to the "order of things"...as it was at the beginning of the poem...

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


Re: Jabberwocky
Posted by: marian222 (86.153.108.---)
Date: October 30, 2007 03:01PM

It may not have been opium - could have been something else. I went to the poisons garden at Alnwick recently, and to a lecture by the warden. They mentioned that Angel's Trumpets - Datura, a common houseplant - has hallucinogenic pollen and there would often be a plant in the Victorian drawing room - people would position their teacup beneath it and tap a flower to ginger up their tea!




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