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It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Marian-NYC (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 16, 2005 07:07PM

I've missed you all!

Can't think of a poem or poetry question to post, so I'll share this instead. My dad gave me a book:

THE FIVE-MINUTE "ILIAD" AND OTHER INSTANT CLASSICS
By Greg Nagan
Simon & Schuster (2000)

His DRACULA and ILIAD are worth the price of the book ($12 in paperback), but I'm mentioning it here because he has rendered DANTE'S INFERNO in a single Canto. (His comment: "No other translation does this.") His intro to it says that he wanted to use some kind of rhyme and meter, but not TERZA RIMA, which is "complex and Italian." So he renders the whole thing in Limericks. Some of them (not all!) are Hugh-worthy.

See y'all tomorrow!

MARIAN

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2005 08:12PM by lg.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: root (Moderator)
Date: August 16, 2005 07:53PM

:-)

We won't be at 100% for a while...we continue to restore individual sections/files to the web server.

Some of the menu options in the discussion boards will revert back to the way they were when we first installed the application. It'll take us a couple weeks before we can add back the menu options from before...

Best,

Aaron


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: marian2 (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 04:21AM

I agree - I've had to resort to housework and similar chores. My house has benefited, but my intellect (what's left of it) was starving!!


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 17, 2005 08:41AM

the book is not available at amazon.co.uk But I did found a blog he is writing:

[moronabroad.blogspot.com] />
[www.justmorons.com] />


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Linda (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 09:33AM

I've missed you. What is worse, I'm on a new computer and my bookmarks and address book were lost in the file transfer, so I couldn't even ask what was going on until I found a very old file that had Stephen's address.

I have discovered a new (to me) poet whose work I'm enjoying. Sheenagh Pugh. She has a website here [www.geocities.com]


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: ilza (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 10:21AM



it was so boring these days without you guys ...


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 17, 2005 10:34AM

It seems like all of us are addicted. I really missed emule!


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Marian-NYC (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 11:47AM


Desi (et alia),

ABEbooks has the "Five-Minute" Iliad book - lots of copies, starting at one dollar.

M


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Hugh Clary (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 11:49AM

I tried some of the other web poetry forums while e-mule was down, none of which I enjoyed as much as reading the folks who post here. Chesil's site was also apparently hit by hackers, and is still among the missing. I have read a lot of good books lately, which I guess are ok to mention since this is a non-poetry thread.

The Bottoms by Joe R. Lansdale was interesting, the first I have read by this author.

Dark Passage by David Goodis - (American) Indians & mountain men yarn

When the Sacred Ginmill Closes - my first encounter with Matt Scudder

The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time by Mark Haddon - curiously, this is written from the perspective of an autistic child, most unusual.

I am still working my way through Garrison Keillor's Good Poems, many of which really are good, although some critics have panned his choices.

A dozen or so of my (Joe Zeugma) limericks are appearing in Maledicta 13 [www.sonic.net], many of which I also posted here. And, Folly Magazine has requested permission to include my parody of Robert Frost's Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening in their upcoming September issue
[www.the-buckeye.org], so I am having a great August thus far, despite missing my daily dose of emule goodies.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 03:59PM

The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time by Mark Haddon

highly recommended !

I was also reading old Lois Lane comics, but that's neither here nor there


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 17, 2005 04:43PM

thanks Marian. 1 dollar for a book is good. But unfortunately the shipping costs are 9.50. I'm going to look for more books, so the total shipping will be less proportionally (I hope).


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 17, 2005 04:52PM

Sigh, it is per book. Is it worth the 10 dollar?


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: drpeternsz (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 06:37PM

What have I been reading?

oh,

Ontology: the Hermeneutics of Facticity, a great read for Heideggerians.

The Classic Tradition of Hiaku: An Anthology, ed. Faubion Bowers, recommended.


The Odyssey, trans. Robert Fagles, enjoyable, readable.

The Sun Is But a Morning Star: Studies in West Coast Poetry and POetics, Lee Bartlett. Informative but uneven.

Pyschotherapy and Existentialism, Viktor E. Frankl, for old time's sake.

The I Ching: A Philosophical Prophecy. Never tells me what I want it to.

Dream of Order, by Thomas Avena, my friend who died this week after a fourteen year fight with AIDS. Clean, sharp and full poetry.


and lots of cafe house poetry

love to all

Peter


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 17, 2005 06:57PM

my condolences. I hope you will be able to find some peace about your friend. Diseases are awful.

I have been working and working and working lately, and have not done much reading. I read Ilium by Dan Simmons. It is really great. Only it seems to be ending in the middle of the story (or I am just too eager for more).

Neil Gaiman - american gods
A nice read.
Neil Gaiman - neverwhere
pretty amazing. This man has a lot of fantasy.

Harry Mulisch
the discovery of heaven (in dutch of course (de ontdekking van de hemel)
It was the third time I read it, so you can say I like it. Real dutch literature by the way.

Started some french books, never finished any. I don't know why, but french literature doesn't appeal to me. The only ones so far I really liked are:

Werber - les fourmis (the ants)
everything by Barjavel

I have been scrolling through norton poetry anthologies occassionally, but found nothing really new. Have been reading up on haikus in order to understand some people here better ;-)

Is there any reason for 5 7 5. It says something about haikus originating in a game. Does anyone know more about this? (I know I can google, but I want to give some people here a chance to show off) (and I feel lazy)



Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: rikki (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 09:40PM

It's good to have the mule back again - I missed you all too! Peter, my condolences to you also; it's very hard to lose a friend.

I've just re-read Marquez' One Hundred Years of Solitude (beautifully lyrical), a couple of Edna Buchanan novels (relaxing Miami crime), saw Sin City last night (artistically gruesome) and browsed through lots of poetry books.

One of the poets that I've been reading is Peter Porter, an Oxford poet, ex-pat australian now living in Britain. He uses some interesting forms including one that's new to me - corset stanzas. The rhyme scheme seems to be abccba in each stanza; for example, from 'Spiderwise'

These were the deadly Trapdoors whose one bite
sent an inclusive poison racing through
your veins: I think we thought the risk absolved
us from all guilt, our cruelty dissolved
in danger. I used my fear of football to
ward off death fears in the dorm at night.

So now i'm curious, is this a traditional form, and can any one think of other poems written in this style? thanks for any suggestions,

rikki


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 17, 2005 09:49PM



Japanese Football
like 5... 7...5... Haiku
"Hail Emperor" play


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: August 18, 2005 12:49AM

Aaron, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place for such a question, but I'll throw it out there any way?

"What type of program, or virus, was used to infiltrate the mule and what precautions have you all taken to secure the site?"


Les


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Hugh Clary (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 18, 2005 11:21AM

In keeping with the usual custom, this thread is jumping all around, so I will just respond in passing that I have not heard of the corset stanza. Nor has the Princeton Encyclopedia. Google also returned a blank stare. It does seem to be the same form chosen by Browning for his Meeting at Night one, though.

[eir.library.utoronto.ca] />


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 19, 2005 12:33AM

Check this one out, especially Marian-NYC

[www.rinkworks.com]


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Marian-NYC (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 19, 2005 01:18PM

Thanks, Johnny -- some of those are excellent!

Here's my own five-word summary of the GITA:

"Shoot first, ask questions later."


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: root (Moderator)
Date: August 19, 2005 08:40PM

Unknown. Whomever got in, uploaded their own biniary programs to the server. Once we discovered that unknown programs were added to the server and realized how far into the server they had gone, we shut everything down and began to rebuild.

The new server is not really an improvement as much as any one of our web projects with a security 'hole' in the programming will not bring down the entire system as it had before. Instead, only the specific project will be infected allowing for greater security (in theory) going forward.

At least, that is what Rudy tells me smiling smiley I would point out we had no time to beta test our theory!

Best,

Aaron



lg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Aaron, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate
place for such a question, but I'll throw it out
there any way?

"What type of program, or virus, was used to
infiltrate the mule and what precautions have you
all taken to secure the site?"


Les



Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: August 19, 2005 11:56PM

Thanks for the timely response, Aaron. I hope everything at the mule remains intact.

Les


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Chesil (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 20, 2005 09:47AM

I am glad to see you back as well. It would have been a great pity if emule had been lost permanently. I'm no programmer but I hope to have my own small forum up and running again this weekend. I can't imagine waht small pleasure a hacker could have for while it is a shame, nobody dies, loses their job or suffers in any tangible way.

As there is also a book discussion, I'll throw in my two cents.

I have been reading Eco's new novel, The Mysterious Flame of Queen Loanna which has delighted and infuriated me in turn. I am in the midst of reading James Wright's letters which are well edited and of considerable interest for many poets, I think.

Sadly, I wasted time on The Historian.

Again, good to see emule back.

Chesil


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 20, 2005 12:27PM

"the mule remains intact"

(Male mules should be castrated, since they are sterile. They can become dangerous with too many hormones, so should always be castrated. You can't show an intact male mule, anyway, and it is useless to keep them a stallion).

from [www.lovelongears.com]


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 21, 2005 05:11AM

good to see you around chesil! Good luck with your getting your site up and running again.

about eco's book, would you say its readability resembles rather Foucault's pendulum or in the name of the rose? (the latter I love, the former gives me a headache).


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Veronika (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 21, 2005 09:55AM

Peter, my condolences.

Glad to have this forum back on line. I missed you all!

"It seems like all of us are addicted."

"I tried some of the other web poetry forums while e-mule was down, none of which I enjoyed as much as reading the folks who post here."

Two statements I couldn't agree with more. :-)

Congrats, Hugh.

I have been studying and working lately, so there wasn't much time for books. I have read The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time by Mark Haddon a while ago and I liked it. I loved Eco's The Name of the Rose. Last year I bought his Baudolino and started to read it, but I lost interest somewhere in the middle. It is well written, just at times a bit too much. Maybe I'll give it another try comes fall.

Good to have you back. Good to be back.
Veronika


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Linda (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 21, 2005 12:13PM

Can anybody give a reasonable explaination as to why Eco's Name of the Rose is classed as literature, but Ellis Peters' Brother Cadfael books are merely genre?


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 21, 2005 12:37PM

Forget about the film, in the book the name of the rose a lot of culture is discussed en the style is imho better than that of Ellis Peters. I enjoy Peters' books too, but I can't read one of them more than once. I read the name of the rose 3 times.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Linda (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 21, 2005 01:05PM

Never saw the film. What I got from Eco was "I've done a lot of research for this book, and you lot are damn well going to know it."


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Veronika (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 21, 2005 01:30PM

I must confess I haven't read any of Ellis Peter's Brother Cadfael books, yet. But I enjoyed the BBC series based on them.

What I love about The name of the rose is that it is a crime story, one of the best examples of the genre. But Mr. Eco is also a smuggler - he smuggles in philosophy at its best. After all - hunting for the ultimate answer - what is the nature of Truth (what is it, how do we come to know it, does it exist, is it one or are there many ...) is a crime story. A mystery.

Written in the 80s (if memory serves me correctly), when the last of the ideologies of the 20th cent. was on its slow, but sure way out, it seems to reflect on the thought that Truth, as we know it, percieve it, is important only as a way towards a better understanding. That a reflection in a mirror, false by definition, gives us more knowledge than seeing the object as is. This recalls to mind Nietzsche's observation that Lies can be of more use than the Truth and therefore of greater value. This can also be applied to literature ("lies breathed through silver") - it isn't factual, but in many ways it is more true - or to put it more accurately, more useful, of greater value. I find this book also a plea for tolerance and the need to respect the freedom of thought. "The One and Only Truth" approach is "the murderer" in this case - getting rid of laughter and doubt. All idols are in a way a mirror, eidolon - means for furthering our understanding and not holy as such. It is the way that is important, the journey.

As you've probably already guessed I love the book (and could go on about it for hours). One thing I want to add - the philosophical intricacies in this book are just wonderful - the Aristotle vs. Plato, interwoven with a classical "whodunnit" littered with bodies, strage weather, a hunchback character, some sex, a hidden doorway and even a labyrinth. All of course from a modern perspective (a labyrinth reminds one of Borges).

Another, similar book, also a "whodunnit" crime story is My Name is Red (Pamuk Orhan). It is set in the Ottoman empire, during the reign of Sultan Murat. A master miniaturist and illuminator of books Enishte Effendi is commissioned to illustrate a book celebrating the sultan. The book starts with his murder. Each chapter is narrated by a different narrator. The questions and philosophy in this book focuses on Art and related ontological questions (and even theological questions). It is enjoyable on so many levels.

To get back to your question - genre can be great literature, when it surpasses the genre as such and adds to it something more, something of a lasting quality. I have read The Name of the Rose twice. The first time (in my teens) I read it as a crime story, I couldn't read the book fast enough, to learn who was the murderer and how it will end. The second time I read it - years later I found in it so much more.

V.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 21, 2005 02:24PM

"I've done a lot of research for this book, and you lot are damn well going to know it."

lol.

I must say, most dutch literature is that way, so I'm rather used to it. In this case, do not read any harry mulisch either!


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: rikki (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 21, 2005 10:31PM

Thanks Hugh for looking for 'corset stanzas,' and for the Browning poem. Maybe Porter devised the term himself, as so far i've only found it in reference to his own poetry. And congrats too on your publications.

r smiling smiley


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: joet (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 22, 2005 09:41AM

Linda:

I couldn't agree more...in fact, I don't quite understand the fascination with Eco; I've found just about everything I've tried to read by him boring - so much detail that I just don't stay interested. I feel much the same about Michener, as well. Oh well, call me a heretic....

Hugh:

Congratulations and please keep us informed about your other exploits (oops, make that your literary exploits...too many youngsters visiting this site).

Chesil:

It's been way too long since we've heard from you...please don't be such a stranger to the mule.

To Everyone Else:

I had no idea that I would miss you all as much as I did. It's good to be back!

Joe T


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: IanB (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 24, 2005 07:40AM

For reasons too tedious and irrelevant to recount, I went off the Emule radar early this year for several months.

When with the aid of a new PC and broadband (at last!) I tried to return, I was dismayed to find that Emule had disappeared in my absence. Not even a residual "We'll be back" notice. Week after week I hit the favourites button in vain.

I was on the point of concluding sadly that you must have all been "such stuff as dreams are made of" when - "oh frabjous day, callooh, callay!" - the old site responded to the call sign. Changed somewhat (where are the Classical Poets?) but still recognisably Emule.

So I heartily agree with Marian-NYC, It's great to have you back!

IanB


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: August 24, 2005 11:07AM

the classic poets are here, although all the links to them seem to have disappeared....

[www.emule.com] />
great to have you back!


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Hugh Clary (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 24, 2005 12:13PM

Oh, you mean the links at the top of this page? Yeah, and the separate forum links are also missing. One can still reach them circuitously (with extra clicks), but several things like that still need to be rebuilt. I assume root has them all on a list to be done somewhere.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: root (Moderator)
Date: August 25, 2005 06:11PM

Hugh Clary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Oh, you mean the links at the top of this page?
Yeah, and the separate forum links are also
missing. One can still reach them circuitously
(with extra clicks), but several things like that
still need to be rebuilt. I assume root has them
all on a list to be done somewhere.




He does (root that is)! Although, my list is growing and the open items mentioned in the last few discussion points above are near the bottom of the queue. Still, that function will return, one day.

Aaron


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Chesil (192.168.128.---)
Date: August 27, 2005 09:08PM

As in Eco generally, no realcomparison to anything that went before. Have tylenol!

Chesil


Desi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

good to see you around chesil! Good luck with your
getting your site up and running again.

about eco's book, would you say its readability
resembles rather Foucault's pendulum or in the
name of the rose? (the latter I love, the former
gives me a headache).





Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Linda (192.168.128.---)
Date: September 02, 2005 06:17PM

I go on holiday, you reappear. It's good to have you back.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: PamAdams (192.168.128.---)
Date: September 12, 2005 05:51PM

Desi,

I'm glad to find another 'American Gods' reader. I'm eagerly awaiting Gaiman's next book- Anansi Boys. (Also, the new Terry Pratchett is on its way to me- guess what I'll be doing this weekend!)

pam


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: September 12, 2005 06:23PM

New tp? I don't check amazon for a couple of weeks and look what happens! Thanks for the info, will order asap. I actually got to know Gaiman because of his work with Terry Pratchett: Good omens. Great book. I read it three times, and still love it.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Marian-NYC (192.168.128.---)
Date: September 14, 2005 01:34PM

Small world! My sister's favorite book is GOOD OMENS.


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: PamAdams (192.168.128.---)
Date: September 14, 2005 08:55PM

I just read Good Omens- for that matter, I just read 'Thud.' I discovered Neil's work first through Sandman, and second through American Gods. (It was one of 4 books I took to Vietnam last winter, because it's very re-readable)

I really liked GO- it's lots of fun.

pam


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: September 15, 2005 03:49AM

Thud is not available here yet .... So, I'll have to be a bit patient. Was it good?


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: PamAdams (192.168.128.---)
Date: September 16, 2005 01:27PM

Yes, very good. It's a Watch novel, and deals with the Battle of Koom Valley.

I can also recommend Kage Baker's work.

pam


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: Desi (Moderator)
Date: September 16, 2005 02:52PM

Thanks. I love the watch ones! I like the way carrot for example started out as a caricature, but became more and more "real" and human, if you know what I mean.

I will try to find something of Kage Baker next time I order (but I just ordered, so it will be some time). What does it deal with?


Re: It's great to have you back!!!
Posted by: PamAdams (192.168.128.---)
Date: September 16, 2005 06:54PM

She has a series which deals with 'The Company'- where a corporation has learned how to do time travel and to create people who are effectively immortal. Unfortunately, immortality treatments only work on certain people, and must be done on young children. The solution- go back in time, find or take children, make them immortal and enslave them. These children walk forward through time, always working for the Company. (Making investments, grabbing the Library at Alexandria before it burns, etc., etc.) The stories are from the point of view of the immortals.

In The Garden of Iden
Sky Coyote
Mendoza in Hollywood
The Graveyard Game
Black Projects, White Nights
The Life of the World to Come


She also has a stand-alone book, The Anvil of the World. It's a typical, but amusing fantasy tale. (Actually, I think it is linked novellas)

pam




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