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WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 12, 2005 03:09PM

How is wit different from humour? I am trying to think about irony in literature and critical distancing in general.

Peter

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2005 03:10PM by drpeternsz.


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: June 12, 2005 03:48PM

Here's an example from a Top 10 list I wrote once, Why they don't let dogs in the Catholic Church"

The last item on the list was "Constant petitioning of the Pope to canonize St Fido the Good Boy"

My friend suggested "St Fido the Good Shepherd"

Mine was funny, his was witty


Re: WIT
Posted by: marian2 (---.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
Date: June 13, 2005 07:39AM

It's a question of degree of subtlety and aptness. Humour is more obvious and immediate, wit requires a second's thinking about to appreciate - you often have to link it into something else you already know (in Johnny's example, the facts that Christ is The Good Shepherd and that dogs are used to shepherd)


Re: WIT
Posted by: marian2 (---.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
Date: June 13, 2005 09:00AM

PS Shakespeare said 'Brevity is the soul of wit' and he was right.


Re: WIT
Posted by: Marian-NYC (12.166.104.---)
Date: June 13, 2005 04:58PM

  1. ingenious humor: apt, clever, and often humorous association of words or ideas, or a capacity for this

    1. speech or writing showing wit: speech or writing that shows an apt, clever, and often humorous association of words

      ============

      That's from Encarta's on-line dictionary, and it bears out what folks have said (above). WIT is "apt, clever" but not necessarily funny.

      Other attempts to define WIT emphasize something being "elegantly" expressed, or said "in an unusual and striking way," "with a surprising association of ideas" -- again, humor (funny-ness) is not required.

      And of course, lots of humor is devoid of wit, as so defined.

Re: WIT
Posted by: Marian-NYC (12.166.104.---)
Date: June 14, 2005 05:40PM


PPS: Dorothy Parker said "Brevity is the soul of lingerie."


Re: WIT
Posted by: heaven (164.82.85.---)
Date: June 14, 2005 06:39PM

You are so cool Will! I love you so much you are my inspiration! You are my hope and dream! I love you my true hope and dream is world peace.You should come meet me at the white House ! Right now till independence day the 4th of July ! I sooo despretely miss you!I wish you would come and say hi to me! I would love to give you a big hug and if you were in the house I would find a way in so I could give you some real lovin.I told them to send Tony Blair home and bring you back instead and abolish parlament forever.You need to come and meet me its about time we were together forever Will will you marry me? We could be kings and Queens and have a palace forever.Did you hear the good news? Very extreemley good news? They voted no on a new European constituion. The revolution didnt make it that far and hopefully soon someday the revolution will all end forever and we will the King and Queen of England forever and live in the buckingham palace.I wish..I wish I lived in the Palace! I wish I lived in a palace at all.The Palace will always be there dont worry about it peace world peace.Bush is a very good president he is so nice he will end the revolution I just know it everything is going to be fine if we can get some peace around here.You are my love light please dont let me down.We must meet as soon as possible its so time we are together when will we ever meet? Today in D.C.? Come here and see me.Go home Blair and bring back Prince Will my love I love you so much! I always have and Im sure always will sorry for everything even though Im a bit upset at you right now for all the caos your causing the world getting me kicked out of the world.Peace Prince Will peace and Ill love you always and forever you are my inspiration hopes be a good King Im so trusting in you! I love you be good family and try to be nice to me.Come see me now come see me come see me I love you will love Will!! Send Blair home and bring back prince Will!!


Re: WIT
Posted by: elb22 (66.143.234.---)
Date: June 17, 2005 08:38PM

simply put I think humour is on the surface and wit is provoked by thought.


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 20, 2005 10:39PM

I am enjoying the responses people are posting

Peter


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 21, 2005 01:37AM

Bob Hope, funny...Bing Crosby, witty.

Bill Cosby, funny...Stephen Wright, witty.


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: marian2 (---.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 03:50AM

Thinking about it again, are they mutually exclusive or is wit not just a catgory of humour, as distinct from, say, slapstick.

PS Another example of wit - Rodney Dangerfield 'Life is just a bowl of pits'

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2005 03:58AM by marian2.


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: June 21, 2005 10:10AM

marian2, I'm not sure.......I can't decide if it is a subcategory or not.

Can we have Wit devoid of humor?


Re: WIT
Posted by: Marian-NYC (12.166.104.---)
Date: June 21, 2005 12:05PM

I would say that WIT is a particular type of humor.

Certainly you need a sense of humor to appreciate wit.


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 21, 2005 12:58PM

Humor explained is never funny.


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: June 21, 2005 01:03PM

Humor results when society says you can't scratch certain things in public, but they itch in public.


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 01:19PM

This is a topic for Socrates, what is the meaning of .......Plato: Wit is just a FORM of humor?


Re: WIT
Posted by: jerrygarner7 (---.lax.untd.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 03:31PM

Witticisms directed at individuals


Wit requires that the listener have some knowledge of the targeted individual; if the listener does not know, or know of, the targeted individual the witticism will lack impact. The witty remark conveys enmity directed at the targeted individual, but falls short of a vicious attack. The quip directs attention to an absence of a trait that it was assumed the targeted individual possessed: intelligence, morality, decency… The quip questions the individual’s possession of one or more of these traits.

Witty remarks must contain an element of truth, the allegation may be unlikely, but it must be possible.
The quip is a poisoned seed planted, anticipating growth. Hopefully, the listener will repeat the quip to his peers, who in turn will repeat the quip, until it reaches the ears of the targeted individual.
It is repeated because it contains slander that makes the listener smile.
Wit, directed at another individual requires patience, the right time, the right place, the right person to deliver the quip too. Witticisms are best delivered when the targeted individual has committed a faux pas, giving creditability to the quip that the targeted individual is lacking.

Humor is inclusive; wit is exclusive- the intent of slander is to define the targeted individual, as ‘Not one of us.’

Wit is normally associated with high brow, urban folk-not true. Rural witticism is rollicking and not for mixed company, but it certainly make its point.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2005 03:32PM by jerrygarner7.


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 21, 2005 04:42PM

Humor explained is never funny.


Wit cuts without blood.


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 07:06PM

I don't know if I would agree that wit would be so esoteric.


Re: WIT
Posted by: jerrygarner7 (---.lax.untd.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 07:49PM

Sat:

Esoteric, no, but a general knowledge of the subject
is mandatory. A quip without a background is a phrase waiting for definition.
If you write a quip directed at persons or events in your region,
the bite would elude me. It would be general information and
the wit would not be recognized.


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 07:55PM

But is that wit, or ethnocentric, egocentric, perspective?


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 07:56PM

What about the gestures when using your wit? Where does that play?


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 07:59PM

At one time I had no idea what All Your Base Belong To Us meant, but now that I do it was not witty. Other people think it is hilarious, some think wit, as I said it was niether to me. So what is it?


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 21, 2005 08:16PM

wit
Wit is a form of intellectual humour, based on manipulation of concepts; a wit is someone who excels in witty remarks, typically in conversation and spontaneously, since wit carries the connotation of speed of thought. Oscar Wilde and Dorothy Parker have the status of archetypal 19th and 20th century wit — to the extent of having the remarks of others attributed to them. As in the wit of her set, the Algonquin Round Table, witty remarks may be cruel (as in many epigrams), and perhaps more ingenious than funny. A quip is an observation or saying that has some wit but perhaps descends into sarcasm, or otherwise is short of point; a witticism also suggests the diminutive. Wit often suffers on being relayed (you had to be there). Wit is perhaps more characteristic of French and Jewish humour, to give two examples, than of English speakers; though there certainly are identifiable Australian and Irish styles of wit.

Wikipedia


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: June 21, 2005 09:21PM

What You Say?

All Your Base sure ain't wit......and of itself, initially at least, is funny in the manner that bad translations are.

What I find hilarious is how pervasive it has (had) become !


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 22, 2005 12:24AM

Humor explained is never funny.

"When a girl goes wrong, men go right...
after her."---Mae West


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 22, 2005 02:49PM

"Is that a banana in your pocket, or are you happy to see me?" Mae West

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2005 02:49PM by drpeternsz.


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.nycmny83.covad.net)
Date: June 22, 2005 03:37PM

now THAT'S comedy !


Re: WIT
Posted by: chuckl (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 22, 2005 06:19PM

No one ever called somebody a half-humor....


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 22, 2005 08:23PM

wit Kathleen Turner


Re: WIT
Posted by: jerrygarner7 (---.lax.untd.com)
Date: June 22, 2005 08:41PM

Time to get serious

Thanks Chuck, you’re edging us to the definitions.
So, half-humor describes a Good Humor Man with a truck that is
half-empty?
No humor is an empty ice cream truck?
Humor has something to do with ice cream, were getting closer.

Wits being whimsical whiz where they wanta.
Half-wits whiz on the side of Good Humor Trucks. (See how wit,
and humor, even half-wits, insist on lumping themselves together.)


Re: WIT
Posted by: A-Leenos (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: June 22, 2005 08:48PM

Bungalow Bar
Tastes like tar
The more you eat
The sicker you are


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 22, 2005 09:29PM

re: Mae West

Remember men, we're fighting for this woman's honour; which is probably more than she ever did.

---Groucho


Re: WIT
Posted by: Marie Chapple (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: June 22, 2005 11:28PM

ok don't get it - difference between wit and humour - what are the differences?

You make wit sound like it is the same as sarcasm to me? Is it? I wouldn't like to think so. But if it is - it is.

Someone, somewhere (I must be tired) compared it to slander - isn't that a bit much or were they being witty?


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 22, 2005 11:37PM

Marie, wit and slander have nothing to do with each other.

As a matter of fact, if wit and slander were in the same room they wouldn't even talk to each other, let alone rub elbows.


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: Marie Chapple (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: June 22, 2005 11:43PM

Thanks, Les. Otherwise, I may have missed the point. I always appreciate your balanced approach.


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: June 22, 2005 11:45PM

what Les wrote was witty

more so than funny, but he did say elbows, which always gets a laugh out of me


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 22, 2005 11:53PM

Who were the wits among Shakespeare's characters?


Re: WIT
Posted by: Marie Chapple (---.sympatico.ca)
Date: June 22, 2005 11:55PM

Oops - I have friends that talk like that every day...I don't even notice it anymore -smiling smiley


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 23, 2005 12:28AM

Oops - I have friends that talk like that every day

You have friends that talk like Shakespeare, or Johnny?


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 23, 2005 12:30AM

Both


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 23, 2005 12:36AM

I have friends that talk like Groucho.


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 23, 2005 12:38AM

I have friends that talk like Marx, and May.


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 23, 2005 12:41AM

Time wounds all heels.
---Groucho


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: Marie Chapple (69.156.45.---)
Date: June 23, 2005 01:22AM

Posting all at once makes for interesting conversations! Insomia...to-nite.


Re: WIT
Posted by: marian2 (---.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
Date: June 23, 2005 03:29AM

2 witty remarks about wit:

She'll soon be a wit, she's halfway there already.

He's almost a wit - just the extra t to get rid of.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2005 12:36PM by marian2.


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 23, 2005 12:26PM

What's another word for Thesaurus?

---Stephen Wright


Les

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2005 12:27PM by lg.


Re: WIT
Posted by: glenda (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: June 23, 2005 07:32PM


Mark Twain.......................

Wit is the sudden marriage of ideas which, before their union, were not perceived to have any relation.
- Notebook, 1885

Wit, by itself, is of little account. It becomes of moment only when grounded on wisdom.
- quoted in Abroad with Mark Twain and Eugene Field, Fisher

Wit and Humor--if any difference it is in duration--lightning and electric light. Same material, apparently; but one is vivid, brief, and can do damage--the other fools along and enjoys the elaboration.
- Mark Twain's Notebook


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 25, 2005 01:26PM

was looking up tropes. I found this Chiasmus:

Chiasmus
A rhetorical figure in which elements are presented in the order ABBA. It's named for the Greek letter chi (which looks like an "X"). The "X" suggests the crossing that characterizes the figure. Some examples:

This man I thought had been a Lord among wits; but, I find, he is only a wit among Lords.


[On The Beggar's Opera, a fabulously successful play written by John Gay and produced by John Rich:] It made Gay rich and Rich gay.


Re: WIT
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-03rh15rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: June 25, 2005 05:20PM

This man I thought had been a Lord among wits; but, I find, he is only a wit among Lords

Ah, but is that chiasmus, or antimetabole?

[www.chiasmus.com] />
[humanities.byu.edu] />


Re: WIT
Posted by: jerrygarner7 (---.lax.untd.com)
Date: June 25, 2005 08:17PM

Chiasmus=ABBA='Danching Queen?"


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: June 25, 2005 10:42PM

Wit, by itself, is of little account. It becomes of moment only when grounded on wisdom.
- quoted in Abroad with Mark Twain and Eugene Field, Fisher


I think Mr. Clements makes a good point here.


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 26, 2005 12:31AM

If antimetabole is a kind of chiasmus, then the question is mute.


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 26, 2005 12:33AM

Better to be less of a wit than be witless, huh, Les?


Re: WIT
Posted by: Hugh Clary (---.denver-02rh15-16rt.co.dial-access.att.net)
Date: June 26, 2005 12:44PM

If antimetabole is a kind of chiasmus, then the question is mute.

I'm guessing you mean moot, but that was the point:

(From the rhetoric link.)

chiasmus - ki-az'-mus Gk. "a diagonal arrangement"

Repetition of ideas in inverted order.

Repetition of grammatical structures in inverted order (not to be mistaken with antimetabole, in which identical words are repeated and inverted).


Even wittier is Antanaclasis:

"Your argument is sound...all sound." —Benjamin Franklin

"If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm." —Vince Lombardi

Jonathan Swift on wit:

’T is an old maxim in the schools,
That flattery ’s the food of fools;
Yet now and then your men of wit
Will condescend to take a bit.


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 26, 2005 02:35PM

My favorite example is from Groucho Marx:
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like bananas."

Moot, that was hilarious.


Re: WIT
Posted by: drpeternsz (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: June 26, 2005 06:01PM

I think it's mute, too.


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: June 26, 2005 10:26PM

It's not Moo"t", it's Moo

just ask Joey Tribbiani

It's like a cow's opinion, it doesn't matter


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: June 26, 2005 10:27PM

and what about the Statue of Limitations,
where you can go up in the crown but not the torch?

Huh?


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 27, 2005 12:05AM

the definition of moot is to bring up a debate contrary to mute which is silent


Re: WIT
Posted by: A-Leenos (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: July 01, 2005 06:58AM

I guess we're at wits end


Re: WIT
Posted by: Satirical (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: July 02, 2005 10:57AM

Now wits gain praise by copying other wits
As one Hog lives on what another sh---.

Alexander Pope


Re: WIT
Posted by: lg (Moderator)
Date: July 02, 2005 11:50AM

I guess we're at wits end

Wit is an endless well; it's purpose that's left.


Les


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: July 02, 2005 07:13PM

Resurrecting some old Emily


Some people they take comfort here
and write on bathroom walls
for those that do, they roll their sht
into the shape of balls

Some others they seek knowledge here
and read these words of wit
and those who like this wisdom get
to eat the balls of sh
t

(from The B.M. of E.D with no T.P)




More from Emily:

Your cigarettes, do not dispose
in urinals tonight
it makes them very soggy and
it makes them hard to light


Continuing to scrape more paint off the restroom walls of the Amherst Public Library and Grill.....who knows what might be found?



When using public toilet bowls
I squat above the seat
alas that does not work in here
the crabs can jump six feet


Re: WIT
Posted by: joet (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: July 03, 2005 11:56AM

Johnny:

Since you've broached the subject, I first saw this scribbled on a Boys' room stall in PS 25 many years ago:

Here I sit broken hearted,
Tried to sh*t but only farted.

Regards,

JoeT


Re: WIT
Posted by: JohnnySansCulo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: July 03, 2005 08:25PM

What was Emily doing in the PS 25 boys room?




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